Vice President Kamala Harris, the Democratic nominee for president, fired back at pro-Palestinian protesters of Israel’s war in Gaza as they interrupted her speech during a Wednesday night campaign rally in Detroit.

“You know what? If you want Donald Trump to win, then say that. Otherwise, I’m speaking,” Harris said with a long stare, drawing loud cheers from supporters in the crowd before chants of, “Not going back!”

    • Trump existing is the biggest gift the Democrats have ever gotten and they still lost an election to him. Their fundraising skyrockets if Trump is involved on the other side and they don’t have to do anything because they just keep yelling about the boogyman. It’s exactly how Republicans use the immigration issue and how Netenyahu uses Hamas.

    • @Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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      23 months ago

      I have no clue how I just realized that “Vote Blue No Matter Who” is a somewhat successful attempt at democratic centralism.

  • CrimeDadOPA
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    -103 months ago

    Well, Mrs. Vice President, if you don’t want my vote in November, then say that.

      • @zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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        33 months ago

        Nobody wants Trump to win. Kamala doesn’t want Trump to win. Which is why this reaction is so dismaying. It’s her actions that are helping Trump to win, not the protesters’.

        • @ski11erboi@lemm.ee
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          -33 months ago

          You’re assuming her completely condemning Isreal would help her win the election but I don’t think it’s as simple as that. There’s still a massive voting block of hard core Isreal supporters in the US.

          • @zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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            83 months ago

            Genocide is wrong. You have to oppose genocide. It is as simple as that.

            “Oh, no! I can’t stop the genocide, even though I have all the power to do that! It’ll cost me votes!” Well, it’s also going to cost you votes if you don’t do that, so I guess we’ll see in November.

          • CrimeDadOPA
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            43 months ago

            Is this massive voting block of hard core Isreal supporters who aren’t just voting for Trump anyway in the room with us right now?

            • @Triteer@lemmy.world
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              133 months ago

              No, they’re in Missouri voting out Cori Bush, and in New York voting out Bowman. But I guess if you just want to ignore the very real evidence we have, sure, there’s literally no Democrats supporting Israel.

              • CrimeDadOPA
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                13 months ago

                You might recall that those were primary elections and AIPAC ran ads attacking Bush and Bowman for anything and everything. Unless they think Kamala is actually “stronger” on Israel, they’re just going to support Trump in the general election anyway. Maybe her campaign thinks AIPAC can be appeased, but it still comes down to the apparent decision that they don’t need anti-genocide votes. Shrimp and grits!

      • CrimeDadOPA
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        3 months ago

        No. That’s why I’m frustrated with Kamala for alienating anti-genocide voters so far.

          • CrimeDadOPA
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            53 months ago

            Yes, it’s me who’s dooming Palestine, some guy in New Jersey, not the feral apartheid state that’s decimating Gaza or any of the countries providing weapons and financing for them to do so.

            • @mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
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              -23 months ago

              again, any universe, where trump triumphs is a death-knell to a two state solution or any humane consideration for Gaza. So think.

              what are you doing?

        • @atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
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          113 months ago

          Sure, but who are you voting for? Or don’t you take any responsibility for your own actions like so many others who blame her for their vote?

          • CrimeDadOPA
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            53 months ago

            I don’t know what you are talking about. I’m not running in the election. I only have one mathematically insignificant vote to cast. Meanwhile, the Kamala campaign can actually affect the outcome of the election by taking positions that attract or repel millions of votes.

    • @zbyte64@awful.systems
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      53 months ago

      You must not have heard about the trolley problem. I’m sure if I logically explain why you should ignore the deaths of your family members you would go vote. /s

    • Superb
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      163 months ago

      The solution cannot be “don’t vote and let the other guys win” tho right? Kamala could have responded so much better, but that means we roll over?

      I just can’t get behind this take. It’s like the religious people who actively seek out the end of the world so they can all be raptured.

      • @zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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        53 months ago

        The solution cannot be “don’t vote and let the other guys win” tho right?

        It isn’t. Keep trying. If she keeps refusing, vote for an anti-genocide candidate like Jill Stein.

        • Superb
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          -23 months ago

          Oh I’m sorry,

          *The solution cannot be “vote for someone who has no chance and let the other guys win” tho right?

          Seriously who the hell is Jill Stein? I bet if you asked most Americans they would have no clue. Can we have an ounce of realism here? We’re 3 months out from this election and finally got someone who is competitive with Trump. Jill Stein is not winning.

          • @zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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            3 months ago

            Seriously who the hell is Jill Stein? I bet if you asked most Americans they would have no clue.

            The lack of research skills of other voters is not my responsibility. My responsibility is to vote for the best candidate.

            We’re 3 months out from this election and finally got someone who is competitive with Trump.

            Then maybe she should try to keep that competitive edge by fucking listening when people are protesting a genocide! Genocide is wrong. If you have the power to end a genocide, you should do so. This is not rocket surgery.

              • تحريرها كلها ممكن
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                3 months ago

                I don’t believe Trump will be worse, he will be the same but less polite about it. An honest genocider is better than a lying genocider.

                After 10 months of the Democratic Party enabling a genocide and lying about it, an honest genocider would be an improvement honestly. Liberals might actually stop apologizing for it.

            • Superb
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              3 months ago

              If people don’t know your name as a candidate, then it’s your own fault. Third parties have been completely unable to run an effective campaign. You can’t blame the voters for that.

              I’ll agree with you on your last point. While I think Kamala can be pushed in the right direction, her response here was a huge misstep. It’s insane to me that this wasn’t even prepared for.

      • CrimeDadOPA
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        13 months ago

        The solution cannot be “don’t vote and let the other guys win” tho right?

        That is the risk the Kamala campaign is apparently willing to take.

      • @zbyte64@awful.systems
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        33 months ago

        I don’t think you mean to say a movement that wants to end genocide is like those who seek the end of the world…

        • Superb
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          -23 months ago

          We can make comparisons to the behaviors of those within two different groups without comparing the goals of those groups. Ultimately they’re both self destructive and not going to accomplish their goals.

          And because it has to be said, of course I’m against the genocide. I do not think the person I responded to (and others like them) will ultimately be effective in ending it

          • @zbyte64@awful.systems
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            43 months ago

            I don’t see how the uncommitted movement is self-destructive; they’re the ones of families actively being destroyed from the outside. It’s like we’re asking them for solidarity in response to them asking for some to begin with. In that sense, their behavior is understandable and very much unlike the religious fanatics who support Zionism as a means to the second coming. Those people aren’t begging for their families to be saved.

      • Maestro
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        13 months ago

        My theory is that religious people want that, so they get into heaven without dying first. They are just afraid of dying.

      • @Aurailious@beehaw.org
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        -23 months ago

        Regardless of what people do, either vote or not vote, a Democrat or Republican will be President next term. The only choice people have is if they want to affect which one it will be.

        Is the argument that both parties will be the same? Is US support of Israel the only issue to consider?

    • @GarrulousBrevity@lemmy.world
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      33 months ago

      There is no room for these things to be a topic of conversation if Trump wins. This way of thinking has no path to resolving the problem.

        • @GarrulousBrevity@lemmy.world
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          93 months ago

          That assumes that things haven’t changed, and that Trump doesn’t represent the backlash to that change. The Dems don’t change things as fast as you would like, but why is back pedaling better than that? I swear, this whole line of reasoning sounds like some astroturfing movement to get liberals to skip the election. The republicans only win when voter counts are low. You are talking like you want Trump to win.

          • @zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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            43 months ago

            this whole line of reasoning sounds like some astroturfing movement to get liberals to skip the election.

            I’m not skipping the election. I’m voting for the candidate who is standing against the genocide, Jill Stein.

          • Superb
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            -23 months ago

            Are we still talking about the genocide?

    • @NoiseColor@startrek.website
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      -13 months ago

      There is a time and place for everything. When you are on the cusp of electing a president that will give Israel all the lea way and weapons to remove gaza from existence, maybe you should take it easy on the other candidate that will not do that.

          • CrimeDadOPA
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            83 months ago

            If the anti-genocide vote has no leverage then why did Kamala say that?

          • @LotrOrc@lemmy.world
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            93 months ago

            It was this leverage and pressure that pushed biden to not run

            This pressure should be kept up as long as genocide is occurring. You cannot have freedom and peace for you but not someone else, especially if you are in a country that forments and causes most wars in the world

          • queermunist she/her
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            133 months ago

            Harris, presumably, wants to win. That gives us leverage.

            Unless, of course, elections don’t matter and this is all just theater.

      • @GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml
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        33 months ago

        How do you know Kamala won’t do that? What signal has she given that her policy will be different from Biden’s?

        • @aleph@lemm.ee
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          3 months ago

          Her national security advisor tweeted this today:

          Translation: “We’re going to continue Biden’s ineffectual policy of begging Israel to please be nice as they’re dropping the bombs we keep sending them.”

    • @Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
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      -113 months ago

      No go ahead and protest the Dems and see what happens. I’m sure Trump and the GOP will listen to your pleas /s

      If neither side is on yours, then it’s not an election issue. Stop trying to make it one.

      • @zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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        53 months ago

        You’re basically arguing that lobbying doesn’t work. Lobbying by citizens can, in fact, work, and lobbying a Democrat on a human rights issue is more likely to work than lobbying a Republican. Of course, Kamala can ignore you (or tell you to shut up, like here), but she’s at risk of losing votes.

        Telling protesters that they’re helping Trump win is incredibly tone-deaf, and the influence of Biden is showing. This is something that Biden would say to protesters.

  • @anticurrent@sh.itjust.works
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    -43 months ago

    Common, everyone knows she is an establishment politician, pushed by hundreds of millions of Israeli money and the military industrial complex. she has no empathy to the tens of thousands of children being bombed in Gaza with American money and American made bombs.

  • @gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
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    3 months ago

    Holy fuck it’s like everyone commenting on this post simply refuses to understand the deeply dismaying and unfortunate - but very real - amount of influence AIPAC has on the entirety of the US political system.

    I agree that it’s stupid and bad. But not admitting that it’s a real influence that has the potential to, you know, help the fucking fascists win is absolutely, categorically idiotic.

        • queermunist she/her
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          163 months ago

          Your thesis is that Israel is so powerful that they can do genocide with impunity and no one on Earth can stop them; if the US ever went soft on support for Israel it could install whoever they want as the president, ushering in an age of fascism in the US.

          You actually believe all that?

          • @zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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            173 months ago

            “This is what Democrats actually believe.”

            I’m calling bullshit. Bernie Sanders and Rashida Tlaib have both spoken out against the genocide, and yet both of them are still in office. Hell, Tlaib held up a sign that read “war criminal” during Netanyahu’s speech before congress!

            Kamala and Walz are superstars right now. Yet, we’re supposed to believe that if she opposed Israel, the almighty AIPAC would dump a bunch of money into Trump’s campaign and get him elected? Money is a huge factor in politics, but simply injecting more money doesn’t cause somebody to win or lose.

            AIPAC aren’t gods, and the idea that they are is actually oddly antisemitic. It’s like saying “We can’t piss off Israel, because they control who wins or loses the election.” This is batshit conspiracy theory territory.

            Kamala has already shown that she isn’t afraid of Trump. She needs to show that she isn’t afraid of Israel, either. That is, if she’s serous about ending the genocide.

      • @Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
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        3 months ago

        This is moronic. One crisis at a time.

        Trump will be worse, this is a fact. He will create dozens of crisis overnight, and he will also worsen the genocide by magnitudes.

    • @Belgdore@lemm.ee
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      153 months ago

      I feel like AIPAC is just a way for US politicians to get a higher salary. The feds give Israel money and an Israeli government associated agency gives politicians money directly.

  • @funkforager@sh.itjust.works
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    193 months ago

    All these trolls asking “why should we think Kamala will be better than Geno-Joe?” need to use their fucking search engines.

    Here’s the first result on DDG when you look up “muslim support kamala endorsement” tells you your answer. She is not what you’re saying. Six days ago.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/black-muslim-group-endorses-harris-after-its-uncommitted-stance-on-biden/ar-BB1r3wqB

    TL;DR: the US Muslim groups that formed for the purpose of adding pressure on Biden to stop supporting the Israeli offensive in Gaza through things like the “Uncommitted” vote have ENDORSED KAMALA as the person they believe to be most empathetic to their cause.

    So the people actually meeting with the president and senior officials say she’s not what these trolls are saying in this thread.

    • @aleph@lemm.ee
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      They’ve pinned their hopes on her, because who else can they turn to? If your priority is campaigning for an end to the genocide, then of course you’d say that.

      Sadly, her national security advisor just tweeted this today, so I’d say those of us who predicted Harris would just take Biden’s policy and give it a more sympathetic face are already looking to be proven correct:

    • @delirious_owl@discuss.online
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      43 months ago

      This has nothing to do with religion. The genocide is targeting Palestinians, not Muslims. Christian and atheist Palestinians are being murdered, kidnapped, and tortured the same as all Palestinians.

    • @GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml
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      https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/07/25/statement-by-vice-president-kamala-harris-3/

      She literally implied Jewish Americans protesting in DC were associates of Hamas and further implied they’re Anti-Semites. This was just two weeks ago when Netanyahu was at the Capitol giving a speech to his clapping seals (a record number of standing ovations for genocide). What the fuck are you on about?

      Mind you, we are talking about Kamala’s statements. Not a random group’s that nobody’s ever heard of.

      • @funkforager@sh.itjust.works
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        -43 months ago

        That statement you linked is about a specific incident in a specific protest that happened one time in DC at Union Station where flags were burned and pro hamas graffiti went up. That is not the blanket statement you say she is implying. It’s about that specific group of protesters who left those specific messages.

        So whatever you’re arguing please take a step back and think “how can I actually get these people to help my cause?” And what you will conclude is that talking to her face to face in a dedicated meeting with all your talking points and evidence at hand with all your expertise is going to give you more success.

        And look and behold I linked above the actual organization of black Muslim communities and their leadership here who are doing just that. Talking to her and sharing evidence and expertise with a plan to find actionable solutions.

        And what’s this? They are saying that working with her is going well and they are endorsing her as the candidate who should win in November.

  • @NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml
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    If Kamala doesn’t want Trump to win, then she should probably do what the voters are asking of her. --Whatever that is. Not listening to the voters could make her the second person to ever lose a presidential campaign against Donald Trump which would make her utterly pathetic.

    • HubertManne
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      53 months ago

      I think the whatever that is is the problem. What would be enough in the israeli situation?

      • @NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml
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        She should probably check her polling data. If the majority of potential constituents are diehard Zionists then she should probably just shut up about the situation altogether. The threat of “BuT TrUmP” shouldn’t scare anybody nearly as much as it should scare her -if it should scare anyone at all.

        • HubertManne
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          53 months ago

          but again what could she realistically say, that would not be an outright lie in relation to the position a us president will be in office, that would get their support. I mean should she just lie and figure she can deal with the repercussions next election if she wins?

          • @NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml
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            Then she should say nothing. Politicians say nothing all of the time, this would have been a great opportunity for her to practice that.

            • HubertManne
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              43 months ago

              again what would the reaction be. Kamala silent on palestinian suffering.

              • @NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml
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                -23 months ago

                Them’s the breaks of a Democracy. If you don’t have the majority you protest and agitate and try to sway support, but she’s the one that risks swaying votes by providing a response. --Make no mistake, I don’t like her. I don’t support her, but if she’s smart and she want’s to win then she needs to try not to alienate any more voters than necessary.

                • HubertManne
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                  73 months ago

                  Exactly she went with what she did. Does it alienate me. no. will it someone else yes. will anything she says around this subject alienate some. yes.

  • @zbyte64@awful.systems
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    133 months ago

    I wish she’d try triangulating instead. Maybe champion the idea of enforcing globally agreed upon rules and connect that to taking on the “Trumps of other nations”

  • @delirious_owl@discuss.online
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    -23 months ago

    Wow, she’s really bad at this while campaigning thing. Why not actually address the demands of her constituency?

    Is it too hard to say 'I will stop supporting a country that is committing a genocide"?

    • @Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
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      -83 months ago

      This is a disastrously bad idea. So bad I imagine her enemies are plotting and funding it.

      Netanyahu himself could be doing this shit. He 100% wants Trump in power. Trump would support and help him destroy every last Palestinian in the name of protecting Israel.

      • CrimeDadOPA
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        93 months ago

        If Kamala really needs the anti-genocide vote, she should convince old Joe to start sanctioning Israel now.