What is happening with editorial boards is not normal. You need to understand this first.
They are not part of the newsroom, so anyone telling you that is lying. What happened at the LAT and WaPo are the beginning. Have you not read history? They come for you. You just think it’s more steps away.
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Journalism died when the nightly news used puns in every story. When reporters were sent to a dark parking lot or out into a torrential storm just so they could be “LIVE”. It died when every headline was clickbait even before the internet. It died when “journalists” thought they were the saviors of our society by constantly reminding us that they were our saviors, ego much? The “news” is always about the 99% of things that are going bad in the world. How utterly biased and pathetic. There are good things happening everywhere, all the time. But according to journalists, newspapers, & TV stations, we are always one breath away from the entire fucking planet exploding. People are sick to death of the industry wide systemic negativity, and they tune out and shut it off. Those who are addicted to the doomsday garbage join twitter.
On the negativity point; you get what you pay for.
There IS definitely negative stuff punished by the NYTimes and The Atlantic (as examples) but there’s also quite a bit of neutral and even positive news.
These are all from the last few days:
Gaza Cease-Fire Talks Resume, but Are Overshadowed by U.S. Election https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/28/world/middleeast/gaza-cease-fire-us-elections.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
The Rebellious Scientist Who Made Kamala Harris https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/28/science/shyamala-gopalan-kamala-harris-mother.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
If You Think You Can Hold a Grudge, Consider the Crow https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/28/science/crows-grudges-revenge.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
New Covid Tests Are Here. They Test for Flu, Too. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/25/well/covid-flu-combination-tests.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
Ford Foundation Gives $10 Million to Studio Museum in Harlem https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/28/arts/studio-museum-in-harlem.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
https://www.nytimes.com/card/2024/10/28/arts/phil-lesh-fans?smid=url-share
Five Science Fiction Movies to Stream Now https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/25/movies/best-science-fiction-movies-streaming.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
Watches That Look Similar in Everything but the Price Tag https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/27/style/patek-philippe-cubitus.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
Just When You Thought Sneakers Couldn’t Get Any Weirder https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/26/style/erl-vamps-skate-shoe.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
Obviously, there are more that are negative, but negative stories are often the most important so that we know what problems still need attention.
Puns are fair game! I’ve run “Quilty Pleasures” in six U.S. dailies.
Sorry, I should have specified. I meant all the bad puns news people use in their reporting, they think they are clever but it’s just a cringe comedy show that no one ever asked for. Actual puns/jokes are great.
Would you consider it a quilty pleasure?
Dad, stop.
/s
Don’t let us keep running the same heds!
Depends how cosy the pun is
I make very cosy puns.
When I think of journalism collapsing, I think of the persecution of Julian Assange or the targeting of journalists in Gaza. The blocking of editorial boards’ endorsements seems trivial in comparison.
That’s actually a discussion I’d love to have.
Well, these and other injuries against journalists and journalism aren’t new, but the coverage and outrage that I would have expected these and other outlets to produce has been relatively weak. Doesn’t seem like there’s much left standing to collapse.
It’s a big deal. The endorsements are mostly worthless from a political perspective, but the willingness of otherwise powerful people to place themselves obedient to Trump’s dictates is relatively new, and is a terrifying sign.
These papers have been privately owned by billionaires for years.
So, you just have your thing you want to say, and you’re not interested in reading our stuff or any point that isn’t what you already had picked out to say, not interested in a conversation, nothing like that, huh?
Just going to keep saying your thing with increasing curtness for as long as someone keeps sending you replies? It sort of looks that way.
I just try to be concise when I can. Either these papers only just started serving their owners’ material interests a few days ago or the outrage over the non-endorsements is contrived, irrational, and/or self-important; an embarrassing freak-out.
The issue isn’t that billionaires owning papers is new. It’s the billionaires hewing to Trump, when previously they were willing to publicly feud with him as people would do in a free society. A good example is Bezos versus the US government over the issue of USPS carrying Amazon packages. Since they’re now showing signs of obedience to Trump in fear of being punished, important scholars are pointing out that it’s a huge problem with a long history in the collapse of democracies into autocracies. It’s a critical force multiplier for the worst and most dangerous features of a fascist government.
I already said this to you, with citations, as did others. You’re so excited about making your point and convinced that you know better that I suspect you’ll just repeat your previous point of view, pretending I said nothing of interest. I eagerly invite you to do that again, if you like.
You clearly are in the field. Or somewhere off in socialism land, but the point remains: We cannot do this again. It turned out pretty bad for Hoover. Things got slightly worse in Germany.
I just do not understand this worldview that the billionaires are supposed to have protected journalism, let alone served as an important bulwark against fascism. It was already game over if that’s the case.
It looked a fuckload better when the alternative was venture capital. I wrote a post praising Bezos at the time, which didn’t age well.
Called it.
I think you and CrimeDad are kind of talking past each other.
Since they’re now showing signs of obedience to Trump in fear of being punished, important scholars are pointing out that it’s a huge problem with a long history in the collapse of democracies into autocracies.
I think this is simply the intrinsic interplay of the capitalist class and autocrats, though. They (millionaires, billionaires, etc) will, as a group, always protect themselves first when an autocrat comes along.
You are looking at the situation and saying, “Well, them kowtowing is clearly evidence that an autocrat has come along, because when it’s not an autocrat they don’t kowtow”, and CrimeDad is looking at it and saying, “Yes, but they’re just the indicator, they should never have been expected to try to stop this. They just intrinsically will align themselves with autocrats in order to maintain their positions of power, but despite that we’ve allowed them to take control of a core protection of our democracy (press freedom)”.
or the outrage over the non-endorsements is contrived, irrational, and/or self-important; an embarrassing freak-out
I think it’s more that most ‘normies’ never actually thought we’d get here (this close to an open autocracy), and this is the clearest indicator to most of them that autocracy is rapidly arriving, and now they’re freaking out. Obv the capitalist class was always going to align with an autocrat rather than risk their wealth, and never should have been allowed to run newspapers, but here we are.
Meanwhile, with Harris’s enthusiastic acceptance of Dick Cheney’s endorsement, there’s a resurgent fascism within the Democrats that these normies are happily ignoring. That guy did more to expand American fascism than Trump even promises. Therefore, this election isn’t really about totalitarianism versus democracy. That’s another reason why the anticipatory obedience accusation isn’t relevant. It would have also been anticipatory obedience to endorse Harris.
Be careful with this. I do not tolerate gaslighting in here.
It’s this one. Been trying to figure out where you spoke with my voice, and it’s here. Not a slight, we just … settle on things.
They didn’t endorse Trump. They are all playing Switzerland. Read the stories and vote. Just vote people!
A non endorsement is an endorsement in itself.
If you sit at a table with 9 other people and 1 is a Nazi and nobody says anything, you’re at a table with 10 nazis.
I had an early friendship tested one night unexpectedly because our friends contractor (an English ‘expat’) started confiding in me after quite a few pints about some actual Nazi shit which I nipped in the bud but would not let him off the hook-our conversation was mostly between us but my friend caught enough of it (and a follow up conversation later) that the Nazi is no longer his local contractor.
Fuck these guys.
If you sit at a table with 9 other people and 1 is a Nazi and nobody says anything, you’re at a table with 10 nazis.
People regularly fail to grasp this.
I spent a semester in apparently Northern Germany. You saw a Nazi, you got the fuck out. They’re going to win.
Yes. And they didn’t not endorse Trump, as well. Which is the whole point here. They are laying down their arms just in case the wannabe authoritarian fascist dictator happens to win.
And the one fighting chance, outside of voting, and taking up arms, is a free press. Benjamin Franklin knew this and used it to its fullest capacity. And that is what is dying — without a free press, the vote is then in danger because any semblance of truth is already dead.
Then what are we left with?
Guns. And death.
And guess who benefits from that?
You know what the worst part of this is? Considering buying a gun so that at least we’re evenly matched. I don’t like that the idea was ever a thing.
“About to?”
We’ve been watching journalism die in realtime over the last decade. Jeff Bezos discarding all pretense the other day was just the latest in a long line of failures.
Democracy dies at WaPo
It started in the '90s. It is now barefaced.
Over the last couple of decades.
We are about to watch the collapse of journalism in real time.
I respectfully disagree.
Conventional media may collapse, but we see very good media outlets doing a great job - ProPublica, 404media, Bellingcat, OCCRP, many local andvregional outlets, … It could turn out to be a good sign if and when the media industry gains a more decentralized structure (the Fediverse is of great support here).
So don’t subscribe to the large media papers and periodicals, support some independent smaller outlets that you like to read.
So, we agree. I should have said “We are about to witness the collapse of corporate journalism in real time.”
But, let’s be reasonable, that should have happened in the '80s.
What are you referring to?
This is not where I’m going to provide media literacy. We’re a bit past that.
Okay, well it seems a bit odd for a news community mod to post a vague rant, which isn’t news, and then not explain themselves.
If you found that vague, I question your news diet.
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So you’re speaking only to people who are not aware of the #1 or #2 biggest story of the last 24 hours, but are eager to get themselves fully up to speed on it from somewhere else, based on only the vaguest of hints?
That’s fair. I presumed exactly the knowledge I was trying to share.
Well at least you got a chance to huff your own farts.
Let’s be a bit more careful than that.
The level of self-reflection you exhibit in this thread is absolutely abysmal.
Major stories from last week, concerning the Washington Post and L.A. Times refusing to endorse a presidential candidate. In both situations, the ownership veto’d the paper’s editorial board, which traditionally endorses candidates.
‘Washington Post’ won’t endorse in White House race for first time since 1980s (NPR)
‘Los Angeles Times’ editor resigns after newspaper withholds presidential endorsement (NPR)
Thank you. I don’t have the energy.
No worries. Crazy times we live in. Have lived in. Continue to live in. Tiring, indeed.
So the owners are being threatened and / or bribed by Trump to keep quiet? Or are they that scared of the fallout in the near future?
Yes. They want to be positioned to benefit from government contracts.
Can you explain more?
I ran newspapers. What is happening here is wrong. This is fully wrong.
What specifically is happening and why exactly is it wrong?
Congratulations for running newspapers.
I think the world at large has figured out that it’s wrong. 200,000 people have cancelled their WaPo subscriptions so far, and some people have written some pretty in-depth essays about exactly why it is such a huge problem:
The CJR’s previous piece about anticipatory obedience also, as The Guardian notes, looks highly prescient now:
There have also been some pieces about how to try to keep good media alive now that conditions are becoming hostile to it:
https://www.citationneeded.news/i-am-my-own-legal-department/
Glad to have you in the conversation, I guess. Yes, it’s not normal, it’s very bad.
I wasn’t trying to brag; this is just appalling, and when one speaks about the failure of journalism, it helps to have run a few papers.
CJR sounds great at first, but it’s about as useful as Poynter. A lot of bluster with no real direction. Both put out some good stuff, but you have to have the same salt cellar.
I lost all faith in modern journalism when I took a college course on journalism and saw how that wasn’t how shit was being done in the real world anymore. Real journalism died with the 24 hour news cycle.
You can’t learn journalism from classes. We are not what that implies. Ten inches in two weeks? That’s useful for precisely no one.
Talk to some older people. They got to watch the movie “Network” go from cutting edge satire to quaint docu-drama in real time.
How old do you think I am? 🤣 I’m mad as hell, and I can’t take it anymore!
