So I am a part of the LGBTQ community and work in a big city in middle europe. A lot of my coworkers are religios and have a foreign background. They are mostly very nationalist and homo-/transphobic. I hate them for their blind hate and bigotry, which wont change. I have realised, that I have become a bit bigotred towards people like them in the last few months, which is, even tho my biases often revealed to be true, just unfair to them. How could I stop that?

  • Wisely@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    In your case as a discriminated minority this is a natural defense mechanism. You are going to be on the alert for people who based on demographics are more likely to be hostile towards you based on past experiences and trauma.

    Some countries are much more hostile towards anyone lgbt than others so unfortunately those views might carry over.

    What you can do is be aware of the bias. Don’t let your guard down until you get to know the person. Don’t let their race or nationality prevent you from getting to know them. If they prove to be discriminatory or dangerous then it’s healthy to set boundaries. You don’t need to feel guilty for not liking an individual person who is actively discriminating against you.

  • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
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    1 year ago

    It sounds like you’re describing the Paradox of Tolerance.

    The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually ceased or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly self-contradictory idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.

    I don’t really have a good answer other than follow your heart, I guess.

  • Hot Saucerman@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Look, one thing you need to take away is there’s a good chance not all of them actually feel that religion in their bones.

    A lot of them are still “religious” because they’re afraid of being judged by their peers, which in some of those cultures can go way beyond just shaming.

    I had a friend who was an exchange student when I was in college. He was originally from Jordan and had struggled with his religion for a long time, and in his time in the US, felt like he was becoming atheist. He went home to Jordan to basically hide that fact from everyone he knows for the rest of his life because apostasy is illegal in Jordan. He could be stripped of his civil rights, his ability to get a job and lose all legal relationships with his family.

    The issue of course is an authoritarian religious environment which punishes deviation from strict belief.

    In my opinion, you do not have to like people who are using their belief to shun others. Their blind hatred and bigotry make them unworkable people to have relationships with. Does this mean every person from their country is like this? No. Does this mean every person even in that group you’re talking about is like this, deep down? No, some of them may be way more open but are worried about attacks from within their own community.

    My suggestion would be to do your best to be considerate and polite in a work context, but not have any relationship with them outside of work, and focus on the idea that not everyone from such a culture ends up so hateful and practicing jingoistic nationalism. My friend from Jordan is a bright, shining example of a kind, loving human who grew up in a culture that taught him to not be.

    Blame the nationalism, blame the religion, blame the strict governance that forces these beliefs on people. The individuals are being taken advantage of by their religion and nation, even if they’re not aware of it. It is their fault for not becoming better people, and you don’t have to be friends with them or polite to them outside of work.

    Anyway, personal opinion, forced beliefs aren’t 100% on them, and we should be considering that some people have learned to be very, very good at hiding their real selves in this kind of environment.

    You might someday find out that one person in that group really wants to escape it and become more open and less discriminatory and bigoted.

    As for yourself, I don’t think it’s bigotry to recognize hate and bigotry for what they are. I do think you need to be able to stop and consider that not everyone from such a community is like the people you have experienced, although a vast majority of them may be like that.

    Anyway, put the blame where it lies, on a religion and government that twists people in knots by leveling severe punishments for not being the “right” religion.

  • Fizz@lemmy.nz
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    1 year ago

    In my opinion it’s fine to hate them for their beliefs. But you need to remember that everyone that looks like them isn’t them. Each human is a complex person and it’s unfair to hate a person without knowing them.

    What might help is trying to find someone of that race who is lgbt and speaking to them. That might help stop your brain from jumping to the conclusion of their all bigots.

  • ISometimesAdmin@the.coolest.zone
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    1 year ago

    As someone of color (Indian) who is often mistaken as being foreign/religious until they hear my accent…

    I feel the other commenters here are missing the mark. This isn’t about fixing them, or learning to “accept them as they are”: bigots should never be tolerated.

    Which is to say, your reasons for being “bigoted” towards the bigots isn’t a matter of prejudice: you’ve extrapolated a pattern.

    But you don’t want to apply this pattern unfairly to people you haven’t met, because that’d make you bigoted as well.

    Well, I have good news for you: you aren’t at any risk for that. Real bigots don’t think they’re bigots. People with prejudices don’t consider their judgement unsound. They think they’re the most unbiased, reasonable people in the world, and often try to push their opinions on others with violence, whether it’s verbal, social, or physical.

    By simply acknowledging internally that you have thoughts that you consider unideal, and unfair, you’ve done a thousand times more self-reflecting, and have more capacity for self-correcting, than someone like my parents would.

    Don’t try to beat the bad thoughts out of yourself. Acknowledge them, and pledge to act better than they’d have you.

  • Mothra@mander.xyz
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    1 year ago

    I know this is a complex topic and you have a lot of solid replies already. All I can add is, mushrooms may help you shift and broaden your perspective if you haven’t tried them already.

  • wrath-sedan@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    It’s completely understandable to respond that way towards people who are dismissing or attacking a fundamental part of who you are.

    At the same time it’s important to note they are a small sample size of their religious/ethnic/national background. Each of those groups is probably so large as to contain every kind of person from saints to bigots, which is why hating a group that large is fundamentally irrational.

    Honor your own feelings, don’t make excuses for their bigotry, but remember that they like any of us are just small parts of the groups they belong to.

  • TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Is your concern how you treat those specific individuals who have demonstrated their beliefs? Or is it about pre judging future people who you will meet? The answer will look different.

    If it’s about those particular dudes… consider learning more about them and showing them more about you. It may be powerful. If that puts you at risk then don’t do it. You are under no obligation. They already showed you who they are.

    If it’s about others… have you already find yourself demonstrating prejudice? Had it happened yet, or is it just a fear? Biases are natural. Everyone has them. Recognizing them is the greatest defense. Huge. Stereotyping is a protective mechanism to help us figure out what is safe or important. It is a shortcut. It cuts down mental processing time by seeing not just a new individual sensation but also a thing that is part of a group that already is in a mental network with a web of associations. You learn more on an instant than you would by investigating every new thing. Even if it’s not perfectly accurate, it’s good enough for spotting tigers and strawberries.

    Biases are shortcuts. But not everything deserves a shortcut. Getting to know another person sometimes means taking the long road.

    Don’t feel ashamed that your mind wants to take shortcuts. It might help you feel safe. In a fraction of a second your brain might think, “He looks a lot like that guy that said he would hurt people like me.” But part of being human is being able to rise above that. Stop and think: is that the same guy? No. Let’s give him a chance and see what he’s about.

    Or don’t. Stay safe. The risks of human relationships can be rewarding, but they are still risks.

  • LongPigFlavor@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    I know the common theme is to blame ignorance and while in many cases that’s true, but we often overlook other causes. Imo, it’s sometimes due to ressentiment, “sense of hostility directed toward an object that one identifies as the cause of one’s frustration, that is, an assignment of blame for one’s frustration. The sense of weakness or inferiority complex and perhaps even jealousy in the face of the “cause” generates a rejecting/justifying value system, or morality, which attacks or denies the perceived source of one’s frustration. This value system is then used as a means of justifying one’s own weaknesses by identifying the source of envy as objectively inferior, serving as a defense mechanism that prevents the resentful individual from addressing and overcoming their insecurities and flaws. The ego creates an enemy to insulate themselves from culpability.” A lyric from one of my favorite songs, “Lunatic Fringe”, sums it up nicely. 'Cause you got to blame someone for your own confusion.

  • Cyclohexane@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Do not associate people’s behaviors with their race. I am from the middle east myself, and I am pro-LGBT. A lot of middle Eastern immigrants are anti LGBT, but not all of us. There are also many Europeans and white people who are homophobic, so the reverse isn’t true either.

    And just remember that homophobia as it exists today was exported by European colonial powers. While Muslim regions were never particularly excited or warmly welcomed LGBT, they tended to leave them be and treated them normally for the most part. It was not a societal issue worth considering. Modern homophobia was introduced by the west, and while Europe has seen great improvements there, the Middle east and third world is sadly behind on all fronts. Our wars and lack of education keep us more ignorant.

    Last thing I’d add is that I notice middle Eastern immigrants to be more homophobic than the ones at home. I suppose it’s their reaction to going to LGBT friendly places and thinking it’s a conspiracy theory. I only say this to say that it is not as bad at home.

  • flamingo_pinyata@sopuli.xyz
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    1 year ago

    It’s not unfair if they are bigoted.

    Try to ignore everyone’s background before judging them. Wait until they reveal their true opinions then feel free to judge.

    I know it seems like all the people from certain cultures have similar opinions, and it’s true on average. But don’t miss good people in there. Let it that be your motivation - finding good people in a sea of assholes.

    • TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      What do you mean by ignoring background? At first that sounds like “I don’t see color” but surely you dont mean it like that. What did you have in mind?

      • flamingo_pinyata@sopuli.xyz
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        1 year ago

        I absolutely mean it like that.
        It doesn’t preclude acknowledging that other people do see color.

        Compare statements:

        • Person is seen as (color) by racists
        • Person is (color)
        • TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Ignoring or dismissing someone’s background, culture, identity, and experiences is a terrible way to get to know them. That’s like trying to understand the Odyssey without knowing about the Iliad

          • flamingo_pinyata@sopuli.xyz
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            1 year ago

            Ignoring or dismissing Assuming based on stereotypes someone’s background, culture, identity, and experiences is a terrible way to get to know them.

  • Timbo303@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Its human nature to be racist look at our history. We made african americans do slavery before lincoln was in office. We still haven’t gotten over the whole racism as its still around on the internet no matter where you look could be jokes could be crimes it is just there. We as humans want to be more powerful than other humans hence the racism and bullying. However there will always be people who are against racism which happen to be the correct minded people. To be honest my brother makes racist jokes all the time but limits it to our private discord.

    The best thing to do is to hold in your thoughts dont be mean to people is all I have to say.