Canonical deserves most of the critics they get.
Ubuntu users on the other hand don’t deserve even the slight amount of critic they get for just… Using Ubuntu. like, at least they use Linux, we should be encouraging them to keep using it.
I have my own criticism of Canonical, but most of what I hear from the anti-Ubuntu crowd isn’t even grounded in reality.
My favourite one recently was that upstart was Canonical NIHing systemd.
ubuntu is an excellent base, but there’s no reason to use it over other distros based on it. it does nothing better than others and forces snaps on you to the point of not even having flatpak installed by default unlike almost every other distro that is even remotely modern.
Meh, I tend to install snap on the non-Ubuntu distros I use. I also think it does a lot of things better, namely “not making me think about my OS when I don’t want to.” Of course, Kubuntu does that better than Ubuntu does.
I was no fan of Ubuntu. It made me think about the OS nonstop.
Why is Firefox taking like 8 seconds to load the first time I run it? Much slower than Windows.
Why do all of my PPA packages break for months straight after a major OS update?
Why is my CPU using 100% of a core when I connect my Xbox controller? Turns out that was a bug in libusb that had been fixed OVER A YEAR AGO but Ubuntu’s packages were so terribly out of date I couldn’t have the fix yet. That was the last straw.
Moved to OpenSUSE and never looked back. My system is basically pristine now.
Q: what does
apt install firefoxdo? Surely it uses apt to install Firefox, right??? A: The command gets highjacked by snap, which promptly crashed and hangs.Ran into this just a few hours ago, made the mistake of suggesting Ubuntu as a sane default (instead of debian or something else), never making that mistake again hopefully.
Mint fixes that. Based on Ubuntu, it intentionally disables Snap, and all apt commands actually use apt.
Or yes, just straight up use Debian if you don’t mind older apps outside Flatpaks.
LMDE, Linux Mint Debian Edition was my goto for a long time.
I’m interested in what made you choose LMDE over stock Debian
Is it because you found the UI more convenient and organized? Or was it before Debian 12 and you wanted to avoid technical difficulties with nonfree software?
Yeah, this was around the time they first released it. Back then I had issues with downloading and installing Debian, regardless of drivers. I was inexperienced, and was using Mint (ubuntu-based) already, so the UI (gtk2, mate) was a huge plus for my restricted specs (a netbook)
Use debian testing if you want up-to-date software. The name implies it’s unstable, but it’s really not. Debian stable absurdly stable, and debian testing is regular stable.
True, but if something’s actually wrong, you’ll have less support with that. But I know many people run it without major issues.
Here’s a thought: Before installing packages you don’t understand, go to the Firefox site and follow their instructions which work fine on Ubuntu and doesn’t install snap.
I’m not a fan of snap either, but with all software, people need to RTFM. Not do the dumb thing and then cry on the Internet seeking hive mind rage when the dumb thing happens.
I’ve followed those directions, only to find snap firefox was reinstalled a few months later.
Switched to Debian, much happier.
Usually I hate when people ditch an entire distro because they don’t understand or refuse to understand its quirks, but…
Switched to Debian
At least there was a happy ending.
Where was I refusing to understand its quirks? After several years of using snap-based Firefox, I came to the conclusion that I didn’t like the snap based installation of firefox. So, I followed the directions to go back to a deb-based Firefox installation. But Kubuntu “helpfully” reverted it a few months later, and that cycle repeated a few times.
I specifically requested the deb-based installation and it ignored my wishes. I know what operating system that reminds me of, and it isn’t Linux.
I’m sure someone will tell me I’m wrong for wanting a .deb-based Firefox and that snaps are better anyway. Even if that’s true (I don’t care to argue), I chose a path and Kubuntu overrode my choice. Silently, too.
I’ll also note that I started using Kubuntu back in 2008 or so, and stopped last year. I used it on both my desktop and laptop machines. So, it wasn’t like I just tried it for a few hours and got upset; I was a long time user that was quite familiar with how it worked. For most of that time, I was really happy with Kubuntu, but having it override my explicit configuration was extremely frustrating.
Others can continue to use it, that’s fine with me. This isn’t a personal attack on anyone’s choices.
I think expecting people running Ubuntu to RTFM is a longshot. The people installing it want an experience where they don’t want to put any effort into learning how things work. If they did they probably would run something else.
So would you prefer they just remove the
firefoxpackage from new releases without offering an upgrade path?
My experience with Ubuntu was filled with bugs and i hated snaps, suggested it to a friend and installed it for him and he kept getting errors and bugs everywhere for some reason, he had the impression that linux is a buggy mess. I’m not suggesting ubuntu to a new user ever again, fedora is the way to go, i just wished they had nvidia drivers in their repos it would have made it easier for new users
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there’s just no reason to start using it when mint exists
Configuring Kubuntu for my liking is way easier than configuring mint for my liking, and some of that mint configuration is going out of the way to undo things the mint maintainers did intentionally.
Everything I don’t like is Reddit
Yeah no it does suck it made me think the Linux experience was at least 3x worse before I tried another distro.
And not just a DE thing, every part of the distro feels like it was slapped on without actually thinking of the consequences.
- netplan
- apt
- default systemd dependencies
- ubuntu GNOME
- snap
- ubuntu pro
- cloudinit conf
You can find forums and docs from as old as Fedora 11 that’s still relevant yet Ubuntu utterly fails to keep consistency across a single version update because they changed something that’s only mentioned in the changelog.
Every downstream of Ubuntu is essentially focused on removing all the BS the upstream has so you can use your computer without something breaking like it’s
Archan overused meme about Arch.There is no right answer to the correct distro, only a wrong answer, and that is Ubuntu because practically anything else including its downstreams like LM are better for you as a user.
without something breaking like its arch
I have had seven full-system failures across the last two decades using Ubuntu that could not easily be troubleshooted and fixed.
I have had exactly zero with Arch.
Take that as you will.
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It’s better than Windows at least.
that’s a pretty low bar tbh. i think a programmable calculator would beat windows
And they actively work towards an abomination like windows with the decisions they made.
I get the annoyance around tribalism/elitism, some people in other posts pointed out the fact that silly dramas and bad/dumb linux takes scares out new users but tbh I feel more confortable with a vocal community, even a silly one. Feels healthier and more alive to me than a mute and apathetic one.
If something goes wrong, if something displeases someone we will hear about it, people will get angry, at the worst we get a nice entertainment to watch and a good laugh, at the very best it leads us to some nice changes.
It’s something I grew to like about Linux, even the silliness of it all, even how you can’t really tell if people are dead serious or not about the stupidest things.
Amen brother. I’m really hoping a lot of these gotchas get ironed out in some way as more people start choosing Linux over windows. I would be really happy to see some smoother experiences in the coming year or years. Don’t get me wrong, things are a bajillion times better than ten years ago, but there’s still a ways to go yet.
Ubutu sucks really bad. I installed it checks notes 17 years ago and I didn’t even get internet running out of the box. Fedora 41 is just so much better and I can’t see how anyone can argue with that.
Yes, Fedora 41 is undoubtedly better than a 17 year old version of Ubuntu.
I believe that was the joke
Well Ubuntu os not that bad if you just stick to the ecosystem. I mean… Not everyone… Pffft… Wants to… HmmHMpf… Babysit… Ahahahah I can’t…
Just install Mint
No thanks. The Mint maintainers keeping provable misinformation in their documentation despite being called out on it makes me distrust them.
citation needed
https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/snap.html
Snap on the other hand, only works with the Ubuntu Store.
It also works with any other distribution and signing mechanism you want, including signing the snap files yourself and distributing them via GitHub releases if you prefer. Snaps installed like that won’t get magically replaced with store snaps either.
Nobody knows how to make a Snap Store and nobody can.
There’s documentation available online, and it’s known to be usable because someone did implement their own minimal store. The project kinda died out of lack of interest though.
I can’t find the issue I filed years ago about this (and more). They have at least made the page less filled with emotionally-charged language, though.
I don’t know why we’re still doing snap discourse in 2025. I’m going to be harsh and direct.
It has a proprietary server backend. This is objectively true. Theoretically you can build an open source backend, but nobody has completed a full implementation of it.
If you don’t care about that, you can use Ubuntu, nobody is stopping you. You don’t need other people’s approval. Which is good, because of the people who disapprove, you’re never going to get their approval until it’s actually open sourced. You’re not going to convince anybody here to stop caring that it’s proprietary. So just get over it and use your own operating system without airing your insecurities online about it.
I never said Canonical’s store isn’t proprietary. I said the statements in Mint’s anti-snap screed are factually incorrect.
What irritates me is all the “lol ubuntu sux” posts showing me that the quality of the discourse is declining. There are valid criticisms, but there are also invalid criticisms. And the recent string of anti-Ubuntu memes has been clearly in the latter. So yeah, I will mock those, and it’s nothing to do with insecurities. Are you sure you’re not just projecting?
Don’t feel attacked by anti ubuntu posts
I laugh over anti Arch / openSuse memes just as hard, if the meme based on something that is kinda true and not just some preconception or rumor.
Thing is that a lot arch user have to struggle with ubuntu at work and see how a lot is just more complicated and harder to set up without any seeable reason. And of course, using Ubuntu feels like using a PC with your parents in the back warning you about any shit you already have done 1000 times.
I don’t feel attacked by them, I feel irritated by some of them. The ones that irritate me are ones that repeat misinformation or otherwise harm the discourse, and that goes for memes that attack any distro like that.
Funny enough, arch is a distro I can’t stand because of the (IMO) backwards and stupid ways it does a lot of things, making it harder to set up without any good reason. But I’m not out there spamming the place with “lol arch sux” memes about that.
The counter to low-quality “Ubuntu sux” posts is not low quality “nuh uh it’s actually super epic!!!” posts, but that’s all we ever get. I’ve seen this pattern for probably fifteen years now, and it’s exhausting. If you don’t care about the criticisms and want to keep using it, then keep using it. More power to you. I probably use things you think are garbage. Hell, Windows users think we both use garbage. I’m just tired of people desperate to justify their choices like they need to “prove” something to everyone who disagrees.
There are plenty of high quality takedowns of Ubuntu, but so rarely are there high quality defenses of it, generally because the criticisms are correct. Nobody ever talks about what makes Ubuntu good, not even Ubuntu users. Arch users will yap your ear off about ArchWiki and AUR. I’ll evangelize Nix to anybody who will listen as the future of advanced Linux management. OpenSUSE Tumbleweed fans will not shut up about rollbacks and bleeding edge software. Fedora users… well, Fedora users are usually busy out there actually doing productive things with their time instead of pointless internet squabbles.
But what is Ubuntu strong at? I genuinely have no idea. All I ever see Ubuntu users say is that it “sucks the least”, in some vague indescribable way. That it’s not as bad as everyone says, that Snaps are actually fine, etc. Always on the defensive. If Ubuntu is actually good, somebody needs to get out there and make a case for what it’s good at, besides being featured as the default instructions for running proprietary third-party software.
Okay, I’ll start. Ubuntu is good at providing a way to test and build packages for platforms you don’t necessarily have access to, for free. And because Launchpad does snap builds, that extends to those too. I have in the past used Launchpad builds to generate debugging information that solved an architecture-specific bug I wasn’t able to reproduce in QEMU and which would otherwise have remained a mystery due to my lack of access to 6 figures worth of mainframe. And I didn’t have to be an Ubuntu maintainer or anything for that. I just had to have a free Launchpad account.
Yeah, I don’t get the hate and intentional division being sowed there.
I’m not a fan of Ubuntu since they went all Thanos Snap (the final straw was replacing
debpackages inaptwith snap stubs), but I can applaud that they’re using Linux.Just seems like low effort, pointless gatekeeping to me.
Yeah I never understood the hate but today I did read a comment saying Canonical (the company that develops Ubuntu) had injected some amazon telemetry into one of the search functionalities, that and using Snap is what makes some people shit on it. I didn’t verify the telemetry thing FYI.
I can definitely understand people being upset at telemetry injections.
The above is to say I don’t think it’s exclusively people gate keeping, dome people have legitimate issues with it.I haven’t seen people shit on mint a lot and it’s an easy distro. Honestly most people are super supportive of mint. That being said there is definitely some amount of gatekeeping.
The thing is, that noobs see linux = ubuntu, and ubuntu makes sure it stays like that.
I do not like that.
That was the point where I stopped using it.
They included a global search function which in a default installation sent your search terms to Amazon and returned search results from them.
It also sent them to a web search (with real time results while you typed, including image previews). So it was possible to get shown NSFW images accidentally inside your OS, without opening a browser.
It was just really bad design, and a heavy-handed attempt of monetizing their OS.Of course that could all be removed with a bash one-liner, but it showed where Canonical was headed,
Canonical is even putting advertisements into
aptffs. They are insufferable:
for me it’s snaps and the release model that suck. Also, apparently, arch-based distros are more noob-friendly, thanks to ArchWiki
I use snaps on multiple non-Ubuntu systems because they solve problems for me in a cleaner way than anything else has done so far.
I also find arch-based distros to often be quite obnoxious to manage, but that’s just me.
what are the usecases for snaps and flatpaks in the home desktop environment anyway? What are their benefits? Isolation?
In both cases, you get isolation of the applications, yes. In the case of snaps, you can also isolate your system services from each other, limiting the effectiveness of attack chaining since an issue in cups (for example) won’t leave an attacker able to (for example) access your GPU.
They also decouple the application releases from your distro if you don’t use a rolling release distribution.
They let you run a rock solid stable base OS with updated user applications.
Flatpak makes Debian actually great and removes its biggest drawback.sounds like an unnecessary overcomplication tbh
arch-based distros are more noob-friendly
I’ll take some of whatever you are smoking. And I am typing this on an Arch Linux system.
Sure, I love that I have a high degree of control; but, if I were planning to ask a new user to install Linux, I would not be handing them Arch. The Install Page may look nice; but, it’s a minefield of “oh go chose something” and you come back three hours later having read way too much detail about bootloaders.Arch is fantastic for choice, but the KISS principal is not available via pacman. It may be available in AUR. So, go learn what AUR is, spend way too long picking an AUR package manager only to learn it’s not available their either and you need to build it from source.
Joking aside, I do need to try the SteamOS install. That might actually be a noob-friendly Arch distro.
That’s why i said “arch-based” not “arch”. I don’t know about manjaro actually, lots of people on the internet complained how broken it is (or rather was broken, idk), so i decided not to try it. But i’ve tried and am currently running EndeavourOS. The installation process is as easy as the one of Ubuntu, while OS remains stable, despite me using AURs and manually compiled packages. AURs are far more friendly compared to PPAs. Not to mention the fact that i wasn’t always able to find the package i needed among PPAs, and manual compilation often did not work due to Ubuntu’s update model.
I don’t quite understand, what do you mean by “KISS is not available via pacman”, so please, elaborate. To me pacman is as simple to use as apt.
Also, didn’t know SteamOS is already available for public, good to know. Gonna try it some day.
I don’t quite understand, what do you mean by “KISS is not available via pacman”
I was making a joke about Arch not being simple and pacman not having packages one would expect, often having to turn to AUR to find such packages. Seems the joke failed to land and now we’re in “explaining a joke is similar to dissecting a frog” territory.
guess, you sould’ve kept your joke a bit simpler, stupider even :D
i started with Ubuntu. i think it’s fair to respect the distro that works towards getting any rando started
Stock Ubuntu is not the only and possibly not the most sane choice for newbies. An uncomfortably different UI with relatively complicated customization, a lot of catches, myriad of package sources, and little progress in general usability make it only preferable in terms of binaries selection and amount of accumulated knowledge specifically on Ubuntu.
Linux Mint is the most sane pick for an average newbie, though mileage will vary and other distros can be better entry points for some. For example, what clicked with me against all warnings was Manjaro, and if not for that, I could still be sitting on Windows today.
Nowadays, I use Fedora KDE Spin, though if a sane Arch-based alternative arises (think Manjaro done right), I would consider going back.
But they teach them Linux in a way, that it just feels like cheap MacOS, where you have to hack your own OS in order to get some little stuff as you like.
