The only few reason I know so far is software availability, like adobe software, and Microsoft suite. Is there more of major reasons that I missed?
There are two parts of my story.
For those with limited time, I gave up Linux once because it was so “strange” from Windows I felt uneasy to use one, and other time because I simply had no use case for it. For those with time, kindly read on.
I had always been an MS-DOS/Windows user who tried Linux and failed several times because I didn’t “get” it, until sometimes between 2006 and 2007 when Mac started its transition into Intel CPU. It was interesting enough (as it was the beginning point for Mac to become mainstream in my country). I decided that my first laptop was going to be a Mac (my house used to see that building own PC was the way to go). It was the first lightbulb moment when I tinkered with a few options in the terminal. This helped me in the future when I tried Linux again. Count it as a transferable skill of sort.
Then around as late as 2021 (because of various life circumstances), I decided to become a cyber security professional—a long time passion of mine. In order for the journey to be pleasant, Linux must be learnt. I enrolled in a course from one authoritative source for SysAdmin, and that was the first time I got to study the innards of the system. After that, along with myself landing a cyber security job, I became more fluent with Linux. Today, I work closely with clients who use Debian, Ubuntu, CentOS, RHEL, and sometimes Solaris, so there is no dull moment (except for troubleshooting Windows from time to time). Linux becomes part of my professional life, as the main use case.
Linux learning curve does feel steep, but choosing a right distro for others help a lot. I never have my peers giving up on Zorin so far, for instance.
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Rustdesk is better than this proprietary spyware teamviewer
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Some people like to work on their pc, and not work on their pc.
Don’t get me wrong I love Linux, but outside of the Lemmy echo chamber is isn’t very accessible for the average user
Everything I know about Linux I learned troubleshooting a problem. And I still feel like I don’t know shit about the OS. After so long with Windows, Linux feels like living in a country where you don’t speak the language; everything is harder than it needs to be.
If the day comes where games are as easy on Linux as they are on Windows, I’ll give desktop Linux another shot.
This said, I’ve self-hosted on a Debian box for years.
I recently switched for the first time, and have been using EndeavorOS with KDE on a couple year old laptop, and my experience has been the complete opposite. It’s fantastic. I feel like this is what using a PC is supposed to be like. Before Microsoft fucked it all up.
People use Mac and Windows because everything just works and it comes pre-loaded on the system. That can be the case with some Linux distros, but more often than not you’ll spend forever troubleshooting because some random bit of hardware on your system is not supported immediately out of the box.
I put Linux Mint on my mom’s laptop several years back in an attempt to breathe some new life back into that piece of crap. It’s still a piece of shit, but I thankfully haven’t had to tinker with it and nothing has broken for her.
The other day I tried installing Pop OS on my laptop after having been away from linux for several years. I was infuriated at how long it took me to fiddle with it and get certain components of my system working. Even then, it randomly boots into a black screen occasionally until I restart it a few times. No idea why.
As an example, when I paired my bluetooth mouse, it had missing functionality for the extra buttons. I tried installing some program that you have to manually configure from the terminal and it just threw errors and broke functionality of the scroll wheel. Found a program with a GUI interface…it had both a flatpack and a .deb available. Tried the .deb and it threw an error and never worked. Tried the flatpack version…still didn’t work but this time it no longer told me what the error was (and neither did reinstalling the .deb version)…gave it once and never again so I hope you memorized it. Through some googling I found out that both installations packages were missing some stupid vital and necessary permissions file for some reason. I have absolutely no idea why they were missing the file. It reminded me of the old days when windows was missing some obscure .dll file and I had to download it online. Had to do some more googling to actually figure out what the file was supposed to contain and ended up creating it myself. Finally I got all of the mouse buttons working after all this headache.
If everything works out of the box, you’re golden. If you have to configure shit or things break randomly (like the intermittent black screen issue), things can get frustrating real quickly.
To top it all off, I had hoped Pop OS would make my laptop run snappier, but it even feels a bit more sluggish than Windows 10. I’m still trying to give it a chance though because I missed a bit of tinkering now and then and my laptop is starting to show it’s age a bit. And the new look of GNOME was interesting (well “new” to me…I used Ubuntu back before they updated GNOME to have this dock thingy).
Edit: For anyone who wishes to comment on the black screen issue…no, I do not have a NVIDIA graphics card.
The best way I’ve seen it put is as such “why would I bother with a list of workarounds and janky, barely supported tools, just to get on par with out of the box windows”. Because like it or not, windows is a piss easy OS to get running on, and Microsoft puts a huge amount of work into making compatability a non-issue. If it was made for windows, it probably still works so long as your hardware hasn’t broken it, regardless of how old. Linux just can’t match the sheer amount of stuff that works on windows. And Linux subsystem means you don’t even need a dedicated Linux boot for things.
So all in all, Linux just doesn’t stack up that well as a daily driver. Sure, I have various systems that run it, and they work great, but that’s because I don’t ever use them beyond narrow purposes.
Honestly, my experience was the opposite. When I had issues with windows, which I had a lot. Reinstalling was often the last and only solution. On Linux, when I had an issue, it was a little learning experience and running 1 command. I guess reinstalling is easier… So maybe not the opposite.
In my opinion, the biggest problem with Linux is it requires tinkering in terminal which nearly every non-tech savvy person finds intimidating. Even if it’s a simple command. Until Linux has a shiny dumbed-down GUI for everything you need to do, it won’t catch on for the average PC user.
Linux has made incredible progress in this area though. But, everytime I use a new Linux install, I encounter errors or something that requires troubleshooting and terminal use.
Tinkering in terminal is the thing I like most about Linux. What’s holding me back is most of the tools and games I want to use is not yet available on Linux but I think it’s getting there soon
Agreed. This should be the #1 priority for at least one Linux distribution to make it accessible. The issue is that Linux fanatics will cry blasphemy for it and that’s counter intuitive.
Nkt with GNOME. I only needed to use the Terminal in GNOME to do complex things an ordinary user wouldn’t do anyway.
Some of those that don’t find it intimidating do find it tiring. I grew up using MSDOS and later Windows 3.1 when it came out. Most of what we did was in command line and having everything in a GUI is just a QOL upgrade you don’t really want to come back from.
I’ve been using mint on my laptop for a few months now and it’s great, but like you said there’s still some things that require command line tinkering and I just don’t have the energy for it.
It’s the same reason I like console games, they just work. Don’t get me wrong, the console modding scene is non-existent and any kind of customization is generally out of the question, but it just works, and it works the first time every time.Full agree on tiring. I work as an SRE, my job is administrating Linux machines (containers these days). When I need to use a computer, I just want it to work out of the box and Linux doesn’t offer that yet. I don’t want to spend time getting it to work
Tbh for some people there’s no going back once you learn it. Navigating a GUI and clicking through several buttons vs having a nice shell with completions and whatnot like Fish and learning piping at some point just becomes faster, same thing as using modal editors.
Thank you! Glad I’m not the only one to mention this or agree with it. Had some twit bitching at me last night to prove it, as if I kept screenshots or something. I just fixed things and moved on.
I’m comfortable using a terminal, but with my Linux machines s common pattern is:
Need to get some software working. Find how to fix it, edit some config files.
Months later I run a system update and it’s starts asking me about merging the changes I made to various files. What were they for again? Are they still even necessary with the update or are the values I changed no longer used?
Then sometimes, something I installed is no longer supported, or needs a manual update because of how I installed it.
People told me “oh yeah, gaming on Linux is a comparable or even better experience compared with gaming on windows.” Well after a whole weekend spent troubleshooting and trying different distros only to get 20fps max and no controller support for a 5 year old pc game I went back to windows and was playing within about 30 minutes including the time to install the OS.
Edit: Before you go giving me tips: yes, I tried that too. You’re missing the point if your solution to the above is “more troubleshooting, I guess.”
Usually this means you didint install the proprietary graphics driver. Which you also have to do on windows (Geforce Experience )
This right here is why the Linux community needs to pick a single desktop that just works for people who are switching over for gaming purposes.
Yeah, having the choice of multiple Distros is great from a technical perspective. But most people forgot what it was like on Windows.
Gamers are not interested in distro hopping on their first time attempt to get Linux to work.
If we’re going to say that a benefit of Linux is the multiple distros to a new person, you had better warn them that some distros are not as easy to work with as others. Looking at the cool desktop pictures on the website is not a sign that a distro is easy to work with.
30 minutes including installing the os
Having installed windows 11 about a month ago, I know that is a big fat lie.
Last time I changed the SSD on my computer, it took me about 30 min to make the Windows ready to play Steam games. Win 11 took 15 min to install, the Nvidia driver and Steam took the rest. So it’s not a lie at all.
I’ve used Linux since about 1996, when only Slackware worked for me ( Red Hat didn’t work right, & I never tried Yggdrasil ).
Ian began his Debian distro sometime around then ( Deb was his partner, hence the distro’s name )
About a year ago, I was using openSUSE, both Tumbeweed & their more-stable LEAP.
They removed the drivers for my wifi adapter, in an update.
They broke my desktop.
Again.
I’ve been told by Steam support ( in 2023, iirc ), directly through their system, that they ONLY support the Ubuntu family of Linuxen.
UbuntuStudio stuck with XFCE for YEARS, even though XFCE is rigged to prevent one from being able to grab the corner of a window, because almost-all of its different options ( themes? ) permit only a 1px thick window-grabber, and that isn’t usable.
Why??
Try installing Haskell Stack on Void Linux for ARM.
You can’t:
Haskell Stack requires GMP lib, for arbitrary precision arithmetic, and you can’t get that to work on it.
They won’t add it, to make Haskell Stack installable.
So, if the only machine you’ve got is ARM based, and you need to learn Haskell, go get a different distro.
( “Haskell Programming From First Principles” requires Stack )
I used Ubuntu Server on ARM, for awhile, and the Ruby it included was broken, with a hard-coded bit in one of its scripts that had the wrong-location for one of the basic things in Linux…
can’t remember what it was, perhaps it was /usr/bin/mv instead of /bin/mv or something … it was stupid, though, and it was in the Ubuntu version of Ruby, which was a deprecated version of Ruby … so…
the upstream Ruby maintainers wouldn’t fix it, because they only maintain the maintained versions of Ruby, AND…
Ubuntu wouldn’t fix it, because they insisted it was upstream’s problem, even-though they wouldn’t include a maintained version of Ruby.
Fuck idiocy.
On & on & on.
Fix 1 thing, & break 3 more , seems to be the “religion” of the various Linuxen.
I’m old, & tired of being beaten-on by “friends” and “allies”.
Abusers are abusers.
IF I ever succeed in fixing my health, breaking ( permanently ) my health-obstacles,
THEN I want to do a linux-distro that simply excludes all bullshit, & enforces correctness-of-function.
Funtoo seems to be part of The Right Answer ( it is the evolution of Gentoo ), in that people get the benefit of whatever hardware they’ve got, instead of a dumbed-down version which is more sluggish than need-be.
I’d want it to be based entirely on Haskell, & Julia, leaving-out pretty-much all other languages ( Haskell’s correctness & Julia’s ruthless-efficiency ).
Notice how there is a huge push to replace X.org with Wayland?
Wayland removes ability to run The Linux Terminal Server Project, so you can’t have little arm-terminals stuck on the backs of displays, and 1 single real-computer in the back, with an ocean of RAM, for all the students to use for their real apps…
This “improvement” forces all to either have a powerful-enough desktop or … not be allowed to run the modern distros/Linuxen at all.
War against inclusion of people in poorer places, where it is much more doable to afford a bunch of RasPi-terminals than it is to afford dozens & dozens of x86-64 machines, is warring for … fashion & class-status??
The X Window System works. Through it, TLSP works.
It enables people to have their Blender-renderer machine in the other room, where its fans-noise isn’t going to bother them.
Fashion-motivated or fad-motivated “strategy” consistently solves the wrong problem.
Same as breaking people’s wifi solves the wrong problem.
WTF “loyalty” for a distro can ANYone have,
… once one has been “punched-in-the-face” by them, enough times??
I’ve read OpenBSD’s statement that “lack of a manpage IS A BUG”.
That IS PROPER.
They GET it.
There are development/programming methods that hold-to the same kind of properness:
Behaviour-Driven Design, e.g.
Test-1st.
As somebody pointed-out, of all the “agile” methods, XP included engineering-processes, like test-1st whereas … the rest, like Scrum, don’t…
That difference-in-religion, XP’s objectivity MATTERS.
Any “improvement” which breaks the functionality-tests or behaviour-tests, and you don’t get the “improvement” in.
Nobody has the integrity to do that, at the distro-level?
I wouldn’t permit any desktop-environment which is hard-coded to have 1px window-grabbers to be included in a distro, hence XFCE would have to get fixed, or it would be locked-out, explicitly for that usability-defect.
I wouldn’t permit breaking of people’s network-access to be an official update’s component.
MAKE IT WORK RIGHT.
That needs to be SOME distro’s spine, that is usable-by-most, and efficient, and including the capability that people actually need to get stuff done…
I want low-vision people being able to use it.
I want blind-readers working in it.
I want deaf people having full function through it.
I want quadraplegics being able to work through it.
I want TLSP working, so a single x86-64 machine, plus a batch of displays & RasPi’s stuck on their backs, give a classroom the ability to teach calculus with Julia which is the proper way to be learning algebra or calculus ( seriously, try Julia: it’s wonderful ).
Anyways, you’re seeing a tiny sliver of the decades-of-abuse that operating-system makers have put in us, that is in me.
I won’t willingly run any MS software ever again, due to their religion of molestation-of-priivacy & abuses ( I was one of the ones stung by their stolen from STAC disk-compression tech, in DOS 6.20, and their Vista era sending all searched-terms from the desktop to Microsoft violated privacy-law for both health-care sytems & for police systems, but … they’re “too big” to make accountable?? etc. )
But the Linux world seems to have one hell of a religious-problem against stable usability.
Distro-runners need to read a book by Al Ries: “The 22 Immutable Laws of Branding”, and understand that that stability/identifiability is a REQUIREMENT for a userbase to be not-sabotaged by one’s distro.
DON’T KEEP CHANGING THE WAY EVERYTHING WORKS, and expect your userbase to love you for it.
KDE 3.5 had much right-idea, but nowadays … wtf??
Too complicated to be allowed to see where one is, within the menu-system??
That isn’t a “feature”, that is “fashionable” mental-illness.
And I despise the Apple-style contextless GNOME way.
/grouch
just an opinion, of an old, useless bastard, who’s tired of being obstructed/abused by distro-decisions.
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I thought Debian addresses most of your complaints. And LMDE is a good option for people that want a different flavor of it.
I’m using regular Mint, but plan of switching to LMDE in the future, when it’s no longer an experimental option. Their Cinnamon desktop is very polished, accessible and sensible. I was surprised I didn’t need to configure and hardware - wifi, Webcam, Bluetooth keyboard, mouse and headset… It was all detected and configured properly. I chose Btrfs and the installer set up a subvolume for /home and sensible backup policies.
I really only want Linux for software dev work(docker mostly). Windows has wsl which has worked beautifully for me besides memory leaks a couple times a year. The issues I face with wal pale in comparison to my experience dealing with Nvidia drivers and gaming on Linux.
command line interface
I’m fine with it, but it’s cryptic and a deal breaker for many.
is one on windows
Yes, but most people don’t ever have to use it for anything. The average Windows user doesn’t know what you mean when you say “open a command prompt.”
I literally only use it on Windows to compile some source code or run python scripts.
And most people, if they used Linux, wouldn’t have to use the terminal for anything either. Linux has come along a long way for the average user, assuming you choose a sensible newbie-friendly distro like Zorin on Linux-friendly hw, or your PC comes with Linux OOTB (like System76 machines) - then an average user, would never have to touch the terminal.
Just ask my elderly parents - they’ve been running Linux for about 15 years now without having to touch the terminal or learn any commands. And before you say anything - yes, they do more than just Facebook - they print and scan stuff, backup files from their phones, transfer files across USB drives, do some light document editing - pretty much all your basic computing tasks really - and they never needed to touch the terminal.
This misconception that Linux users need to use/learn the terminal really needs to die.
Your one use case does nothing to convince me. I’ve read enough recent examples contrary to that to know better, not to mention having had to manually edit a ridiculous number of setting files on my own system to get something to work properly that should have just worked without jumping through all the hoops. Keep lying to yourself that this will be the year of the linux desktop.
I’ve used Linux exclusively for several years now, but problems that killed earlier attempts were:
- I’d encounter a hardware driver issue I didn’t know how to fix (Nvidia…)
- I’d dual-boot Windows for playing games and maintaining both OSes was too much (this was pre-Steam client on Linux)
- I wanted to customize some setting that the desktop environment’s control panel didn’t support, and I’d have to copy/paste terminal commands I didn’t understand, usually breaking something which necessitated a reinstall.
- Ubuntu would provide outdated / buggy versions of software, and installing the newer version meant installing PPAs which could conflict with other packages / cause other instabilities I didn’t know how to fix.
The first two have seen massive improvements but I still find most desktop environments limiting if you aren’t a terminal expert / Arch type of user, and Ubuntu still provides buggy versions of programs.
It’s just too much work, and I’ve only ever experienced Gnome in the distros I’ve tried and hated it. Windows is far from perfect but I know it like the back of my hand. Every step of the way in trying to use Linux for me was a chore.
Performance and reliability when gaming is my only reason for keeping Windows installed.
Steam and everything else have already exceeded my wildest expectations in Linux, however I am somebody who wants to come home from work, fire up a game and have it work perfectly with the best settings and framerates I can manage. I don’t have the time nor patience to troubleshoot why some update just broke the game in some way after I’ve spent the last 10 hours dealing with other people’s problems.
Linux would have to manifest a physical fist that punched me in the face every so often in order for me to quit using it. (I’m just shy of 20 years since abandoning Windows)
My reasons:
- So far there hasn’t been something I’ve wanted to do on Linux that wasn’t doable - and most of the time (especially these days) it’s easier.
- Everything MS has done in the consumer space post Win-2K
- Everything Apple has done.
