kinda extreme, but that’s what a person with empathy and disgust for injustice probably would do after killing or helping to kill thousands of innocent people with such violence
How do we get the other guys to set themselves on fire?
Fascist settlers like the zionists occupying Palestine won’t do that. They’ll just go home to Europe if their project falls far enough for them to begin to experience anything approaching this level of despair. Already many of them fled back home after Oct 7th because they don’t feel safe in the settlements.
I know. What I’m getting at is that Aaron’s death seems like a loss to the free Palestine movement since it came at little to no cost to the other side.
Apparently vibes are more important than material reality
You’re narrowing your worldview too far into materialism, to the point where nothing immediately tangible and measurable matters IMO.
Absolutely, “vibes” (in this case- the raising of awareness and education of the masses- and the call to the necessity of revolutionary action) matters. It matters for getting the revolution off the ground to begin with, and it matters for protecting the spirit and integrity of the revolution from then onwards.
I certainly don’t want Aaron’s death to have been in vain, but I’m not optimistic. The only people who remember the last time someone torched themselves in front of an Israeli embassy were already paying attention by then.
touch grass
?
at least sabotage something before immolating yourself, this kind of protest is nonsense.
Something similar could be said about hamas’ flood operation. That it achieved nothing (much), other than zionists fury.
Hopefully his sacrifice, from his own in-empire position, could get some political traction? Unlikely, but not impossible, I think.
Edit: in parenthesis
??? They did material damage to the israeli military, it is insane that you compare these two things.
Considering he was an asset to the US military, he technically did material damage to the US military too…
The material damage done my hamas against the IDF was mostly political, and could only be assessed months after the attack because of the repercussion of actions of Israeli government. If the political setback wasn’t there, the attack would have been just a “terror suicide attack against party goers”.
I think the odds for nothing much to have happened were pretty high at the time. Just like many times before.
I think this man’s acts are likely to result in nothing. But it was an attack against the US military forces image. What happens from it depends on the political agents now. The US media and military, the international media, and peer to peer social networks.
You cannot be serious downplaying the Oct7 operation, it was a massive success for Hamas. Might very well be the most succesful operation against Israel or the US in the region and you’re downplaying it and even putting it side to side to a guy killing himself in protest, get this idealistic nonsense out of here.
Objectively, and immediately, what oct7 achieved? An incursion into occupied territory and a number of hostages captured. Did I miss anything?
Assuming I didn’t miss anything immense, In the grand scheme of matters, by itself, it doesn’t hurt Israel that much.
Great operational success, but if Israel did absolutely nothing, it would have faded from the international news cycle in 2 weeks. Some pressure would have boiled internally, and Netanyahu would have been removed from power and prosecuted for corruption, finally. But, again, by itself, nothing would have changed in material conditions for the Palestinian cause.
What do you think I’m missing, here?
The unfolding desperation of fascist elites in Israel caused an international backlash of huge proportions. Which was apparently the actual goal of hamas. Also with great success. My point is that there was a risk that that actual goal didn’t obtain success. The conditions were right, and success unfolded. Good.
With this case, I think it’s too early to evaluate the unfolding impact of this act on internal public opinion of US population.
Operationally, it was successful. Guy went there, did his thing, hurt no civilians, got media coverage, is not suffering anymore. Without any unfolding from external actors, it’s likely to go nowhere. Are the conditions right to have this go somewhere? It’s a long shot, but let’s hope so.
They killed soldiers including high ranking officers, they destroyed military equipment and military infrastructure, they did MATERIAL DAMAGE to their military capabilities. The sum of material victories is what wins wars, not fucking vibes on media, you understand this right? JFC it’s not that hard. Guy killing himself does NOTHING to Israel military capabilities, NOTHING.
I forgot about the high ranking officers, good point.
Still, by itself, it didn’t change the policial landscape! By itself, it’s barely a victory. Some destruction and violence. Some humiliation. Some setbacks, but Israel and its allies could easily recover from it. To call it a material victory, by itself? It’s a stretch.
It was a very successful, heroic, hail mary, though. For the mistakes it caused the zionists to commit, and the support it gathered from the international community, it strengthens the Palestinian cause.
By themselves, Palestinians can’t achieve a military victory against Israel and its allies. They barely had (and still barely have) support of neighboring Arab countries. Iran isn’t an Arab country. Unfortunately media vibes was kind of a last hope, in this case. That’s where the material victory was.
Let’s hope Mr burning man sparks something bigger than himself.
I wish I could make the point shorter. Thanks for the conversation, comrade.
Hey listen comrade, when thousands of brown men die for Palestine they did nothing, But this one white guy setting himself on fire will bring down the empire trust me bro.
If you come into any thread on this topic flailing quips about how this person was a scumbag and deserved it, this genocide has drained you of your morale and your conscience and you need to take a step back and re-examine the words coming out of your mouth. Her action was idealistic yes but it was also a horrible fucking tragedy. She saw the genocide just like us and she was lost and confused of what to do about it. She did the only thing she thought would make people look and gave her life to do it and people still shit on her corpse. Have some fucking respect. She saw what we all saw, this horrific fucking genocide and was overwhelmed by the terror and did the only thing she thought made sense.
Edit: Adjusted the gender in my comments according to new findings that she was transgender. The proof being that the account the action was streamed on using Twitch was named acebush1 a month prior before it was renamed to Lillyanarkitty. Her reddit account /u/acebush1 was found and contains anarchism posting and some LGBTQ content which convinces me that acebush1 and Lillyanarkitty are the same person. Here’s a link since the account was wiped clean by the feds at Reddit. https://www.reveddit.com/y/acebush1/
Yep, he literally did more than the entirety of the Gulf states combined.
Also, so what he was a troop. He saw the right side, I am the last person for troop worship, but he saw something wrong and acted. He was also only 25. There are people who will tolerate the most racist xenophobic warmonger friends and relatives twice or three times this guy’s age because they PERSONALLY know them and then will shit on this guy.
Yes idealistic is the way to appraise this.
He was born to certain material circumstances, was in a situation as part of something oppressive. Became conscious but lacked the materialist analysis (intentionally denied to him via propaganda) to really evaluate and understand. He acted with heart, with courage, but the effect of such actions while showing great personal moral fortitude and resolve is a sad reminder of how far we have to go in educating the proletariat of the west. He found himself awake in a nightmarish system with no escape, no real understanding of its basis, his world, the lies told to him as a child (and adult) crumbling down around him as he watched untold horrors unfold with no way to stop or slow them. He felt the pain as many of us feel the pain seeing people slaughtered in a genocide that his government was enabling. It doesn’t matter that he didn’t see through other acts of the US military, it matters he saw through this one and wasn’t silent and felt strongly enough to be more than passive.
He’s a martyr the same way someone who died protesting lack of medical care on a sidewalk is. He may not be worthy of a place in some future hall of peoples heroes, of comrades, cadres who died in the revolution, in educating others, in state anti-com action, but he’s worthy of acknowledging now as someone on the right side of history. As someone braver and better than every scumbag journalist on television who reports on the genocide in a “balanced and neutral” (read: pro-genocide, zionist propagandist mouthpiece) manner. Braver and better than every liberal who tries to make excuses for Biden, who tries to both-sides the genocide, who demands people vote blue and claim he is the lesser evil. This was an unremarkable man undertaking an action that likely won’t result in any real material change, and yet he did more, tried harder, was truer to the ideal of being against genocide than every simpering, disgusting liberal excuse-maker.
Can think of a couple people in this thread whose comments on this matter warrant discipline.
Already banned one from the comm I moderate on hexbear.
Fucking calling this “performative liberal virtue signaling” is so fucking disgusting coming from a supposed comrade.
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Aparently NPR still does not know why he did it
Obviously a lone wolf attack
Bury it then “Look! Aliens!!” if it doesn’t die on its own.
Source: They do this every single time their fuck-ups boil over.
They’re not going to do anything, i dont know why people are expecting something.
Braver than all the other troops combined.
Guess the Gaza genocide woke them up to the psychic horror of being a storm trooper and suddenly realizing they were on the side of the baddies.
I definitely wish they’d done something that didn’t result in their death though I understand the appeal to a non-Marxist when all the shouting in the world doesn’t make a difference to a government determined to help carry out a genocide and you don’t have tools for understanding why and it just seems like madness.
I imagine there was extreme anxiety, depression, and/or other mental trauma or illness in conjuncture with this that drove them over the edge. This country literally can drive anyone with a conscious insane if they actually see the truth of it. It’s tragic.
It probably was worse because he knew that he was complicit in it.
And given they’d apparently posted at least one anarchist-leaning thing, they perhaps imagined this action would drive others to action instead of the boring and less flashy work of coalition building, protests, slow class education, etc. Don’t get me wrong, if one is depressed enough to die anyways and can’t be convinced otherwise, going out this way is a bit better than shooting yourself in a dark room and certainly takes more courage though it is an act of despair and one born not of hope or genuinely revolutionary activism but desperation, pain, hopelessness, frustration, a sense of powerlessness in the face of a great horror.
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This is the most extreme way of sacrificing yourself, there are Buddhist monks who did the same against Vietnam war if I remember correctly.
He will be remembered after Palestine is liberated, RIP! 🇵🇸
RIP. Very brave, at least tried to do something and override media censorship.
Please keep comments respectful or go touch some grass.
I wish he didn’t do this but he is a hero nonetheless. Knocking this guy or saying he should have sought therapy is therapy fetishism and “leftists” promoting this line of thinking are just frauds. They will readily trade in radicalism to be a plus one at the liberal party.
There is nothing radical about what dude did.
Fr, i can’t believe how lib’d up people are rn.
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Sincerely go fuck yourself you cowardly piece of shit.
Not everyone is phased by your outrage.
Nothing radical about setting oneself on fire as a protest?
Dear god you hasbara are nuts.
It certainly isn’t radical in any Leninist since.
o7 comrade Aaron Bushnell.
Livestreaming it was a smart move, I don’t think this story would have had anywhere near this much attention if not for the video.
Atlanta woman didn’t get any attention.
Hell, they didn’t even report she was a woman…
I believe both Ansarallah and the Palestinian resistance have both issued statements honoring him so at least the most impacted people see his actions as valid and revolutionary.
Rest in peace, hero…
The fact that major news networks are talking about this is a victory for him. This is something you can’t just sweep under the rug.
Sadly, Israeli intel assets are doing everything they can to smear him as an insane man. Whether he was mentally ill or not is irrelevant since he got what he wanted.
Everyone is mentally ill. Those who support the genocide aren’t sane , that’s clear.
Those who protest the genocide are smeared as lunatics while being sane
