Take note: All Zelenskyy was asking for was what kind of guarantees the United States could provide in exchange for the mineral deal. Trump and Vance either could not or would not answer the question and made buffoons out of themselves.
Ukraine should not sign. USA under Trump will betray them at the first chance he gets. Getting support from mainland Europe would be more likely to see lasting peace, especially when Russia has been on the back foot for months now.
Why does Treason Trump hate the Free World? Why does he hate freedom and democracy? We does Trump hate America and American values?
Values, freedom, and decency are his mortal enemies. He’s a parvenue with a god complex.
Because you have to be willing to not control everything. He wants to run the world like one of his businesses. You are just a cog to serve him and enrich him, failing to follow his orders is insubordination. You have no value beyond how you can be of use to him. Nothing and no one has any inherent value. You are ultimately disposable.
His fans likely subscribe to this philosophy until they are on the receiving end of it then they play the victim.
I’m just one US citizen but I’d like to apologize to all Ukrainians on behalf of 50% or so of all people here. Our leadership is disgusting.
EU citizen and i’d like to say your apologies are empty and hollow to us. Do something. This isn’t a joke, this isn’t hyperbole or a leftist talking point, you’re under constitutional crisis. Do something.
This seems like a good place to post this:
Our current situation really is the culmination of almost 70 years of rightwing efforts. It’s a long listen but worth checking out How Conservatism Won by Robert Evans. He lays out in a clear concise way “how a consortium of rich failsons got together to fund a network of right wing think tanks and shift American culture in a fun new direction. (note: it was not actually fun at all).” They’ve been very successful and those think tanks are now pipelines used to funnel ideological purists into powerful positions like our current Supreme Court.
It’s worth remembering that one of the primary ghouls/traitors responsible for the attempted overthrow of our government on J6 was Roger Stone, the same traitorous ratfucker who began his career working for Nixon and has a fucking Nixon tattoo on his back. It’s really impossible to overstate just how fuckin’ bad these people are and they’re winning.
I tell people as often as I can, especially my trans and bipoc friends; now is the time. Get a couple guns (a long one and a short one) and learn how to use them. Learn some basic first aid, you really just need to know how to stabilize someone. Start networking with like-minded people in your communities. The police will not protect us, they’ve proven they’ll happily club senior citizens to the ground and shoot any protesters in the face with rubber bullets while escorting a rightwing murderer to safety.
The coup was successful, they’re in power and if they don’t want to give it up they won’t.
Get to know people in your community. Take an interest in growing food, learn how to fix things. Establish secondary lines of communication and start preparing.
https://mutualaiddisasterrelief.org/
https://afsc.org/news/how-create-mutual-aid-network
EU citizen and i’d like to say your apologies are empty and hollow to us. Do something. This isn’t a joke, this isn’t hyperbole or a leftist talking point, you’re under constitutional crisis. Do something.
Sorry to tell you this but at the moment Europe’s nuclear arsenal is the only thing standing between humanity and disaster.
They weren’t talking to you champ. You wanna strap up and shoot your shot? I’ll buy your plane ticket.
Don’t worry we’ll all be forced conscripts soon to fight against the USA/Russia Axis Powers.
Good luck, seriously.
Those of us that can help, will; we’re mostly worried about trying to organize our local communities at this point but you’ll find plenty of friendly faces I’m sure.
Trump and Vance are bullies. The kind of damage this will do to the PR of the USA is incalculable.
Will there be anymore goodwill for the USA?
The US needs to clean house.
I mean, if the position of the country can change to such an insane degree by the results of a single election cycle then a lot of that goodwill that was given prior, should be examined.
That’s the sad fact of the matter. Trump and Vance and Elon and the rest of the administration are a fucking catastrophe, yes. But what is even worse than that, what is even more damaging for the long term viability of diplomacy, of international relations and governance, is that even when these clowns are gone, it can happen again.
Every time another country signs a trade deal, an alliance, a pact, an agreement of any sort with the US, even if the current leadership is absolutely incredible, that can change dramatically on a dime within 4 years. That has always been true, of course, but historically the precedent has been that new administrations are largely consistent in upholding international agreements. But a new precedent has been set, that agreements (aka “sheets” as the dumbass calls them) are worthless, that they can be torn up on a whim, that peace may require you to fluff the ego of a megalomaniac and kiss his feet, that you might have to placate idiocy and bravado and STILL have your economy rocked by asinine trade policies, that the threat of invasion and war could be a negotiation tactic for trade deals…
Countries are going to completely detach themselves from the US in all matters, and they absolutely should. We are going be turned into a North Korea-like state. Cut off from world trade and information, no diplomacy, just a looming threat to the whole world. Fuck me, this shit is bleak.
It won’t go so far as being like North Korea. But there are countries out there that don’t get good trade deals because of this exact problem. We will have to pay more for every trade deal we make for the next 30 years because other countries can’t be sure we’ll keep our end of it. It’s just like getting a loan with a bad credit rating. You can still get the loan but the bank is going to demand more compensation because of the risk.
Every time another country signs a trade deal, an alliance, a pact, an agreement of any sort with the US, even if the current leadership is absolutely incredible, that can change dramatically on a dime within 4 years.
The “Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde” effect.
You’re being too pessimistic. Alliances have always been about being strange bedfellows that’ll stab each other in the back should the proper conditions ever be met.
No matter how kissy-kissy politicians may be in front of a camera, backroom dealing is still the norm. Only the orange guy mistook the backroom with a toilet and so it stinks of shit for everyone to see.
Whatever the end result of this, whoever’s left afterwards will get back to tender intimacies without a hitch.
Is this take supposed to be less pessimistic?
Yup. Politics are ugly. Always have been, hopefully won’t always be as well. We generally don’t see the ugliness, but right now it’s fully exposed. The recoil from seeing it happen might be hard to swallow, but that doesn’t make it any worse than it usually is when hidden. But we can also see the strength of having to go through that and still walk away.
Now I’m hoping the next period of time won’t prove me wrong and this moment will be an important impetus for change towards the better.
If I am proven wrong though, I’ll join your pessimism.
This isn’t just bad politics. We’ve publicly threatened invasion and annexation of our closest allies.
Trump irreparably compromised our national security by doing this. We rely heavily on our alliances and soft power for counterterrorism, military and counterintelligence operations. Before Trump, we were leading the most powerful network of defense alliances in the world. In one month Trump pissed that away, and made us a much weaker country.
What we’re seeing here is full on treason.
You’re seeing the US through a colored lens. It started losing its stride a couple of presidencies before Trump. Had the opportunity to make a comeback in several ways, yet shat on each and every one.
Trump’s just the biggest visible zit on the US. Every other zit pushing him into prominence were something no one tried to clean before they got infected with pus. It’s all ugly and something that’s been brewing for a long time.
This ain’t no one man show. The “treason” is just an inner conflict that was left untreated for a long, long time. The US needs to start healing itself, pronto.
this is what putin wanted all along, isolate the us, so they dont intefere with RUSSIAS internal matters, such as with crimea, ukraine, russian satellite states.
I think that so many things are going to get fucked up between now and then that we would need a constitutional convention just reweave the threads of our society.
Congress can’t legislate its way out of this mess anymore.
They could. They absolutely could. They could pass laws regulating the Supreme Court and pass laws specifically reserving powers to itself, including more congressional agencies. Like a congressional department of justice, a congressional law enforcement arm, and a law removing the president from control of military appointments and nominations. (Effectively giving him a force made by Congress, that he can command but cannot easily subvert)
But isn’t part of why we are here is because our Constitution is vague to some people, it’s clauses without claws… What happens when the supreme court interprets the laws to be unconstitutional, whats to stop us from just doing this all again… People are not properly represented the electoral college, among many other things need to be fixed.
We no longer deserve good will, not as a whole.
United we Stand, Divided We Fall.
We’re falling right now. We’re divided, and many of us can’t even speak to our own families any longer. The power of cruelty and stupidity in great numbers can cause untold chaos and destruction.
The United States has, at least for this moment, fallen. Nobody should rely on us as a whole. An internal conflict may be coming at this rate here, and it has the potential to tear us all apart. I hope it doesn’t come to this, but it is what I fear. Things are descending so quickly…
Goodwill? Yes.
But as long as the US political system is as it is and as long it will only flip-flop between democrats and Maga every few years, there can not be any trust anymore.
The US proved to be an unreliable partner.
How can any other country go into any. negotiations with the US without knowing the US can changed what they do at any time?
There is no basis for a deal, anymore.
I agree completely. Trump, the self-entitled “master of the deal” has unilaterally dismantled the United State’s ability to make lasting deals for the foreseeable future.
Americans now
The audacity of Vance to demand gratitude whilst twisting the knife they implanted in Zelensky’s back…
For Shame…
Few takeaways:
- JD Vance is talking over a tired-looking trump who can’t follow the conversation (See, him trying to correct Zelenskyy on the date of Crimea’s annexation, claiming it was 2015, then responding to being corrected on the date that, “I wasn’t there”. Like he was there in 2015, LOL).
- This was a preplanned ambush that is the most cringe fucking thing I’ve seen in the last 5 years, from MTG’s fucking boyfriend (I wish I made this up, I really do), attacking Zelenskyy for not wearing a suite, to which he responds by saying “I’ll wear a costume after the war is over. Like yours, but maybe better”
- JD Vance is really really bad at acting. He theatrically exclaims how the Oval office is being dIsReSPecTed!!!111!!! but with like a 5 second delay and with limited enthusiasm. All it does it tells you that this was the plan all along.
- Marco Rubio had a Dr Birx/drink bleach kind of moment there.
Overall the only news here is trump is really really declining cognitively. I wonder how long it will take NYT to notice that…
“I’ll wear a costume after the war is over.”
What a savage takedown, holy shit.
Zelenskyy is a class act. America doesn’t deserve to even be sitting at the same table as this guy.
Just to clarify, in Russian and Ukrainian “costume” means “suit”.
Fun fact: the French word for “suit” is “costume.” I wonder if Zelenskyy was aware of his multilingual pun.
Suit in Ukrainian is listerally “костюм”, in Latin script “kostyum”. Which is pronounced close enough.
I am not sure if it was intended, but hilarious nevertheless.
I’m sure it’s intended. The man was a comedian, and he’s been criticised for not wearing a suit before. He’s had this line in the chamber for a while, now he’s showing the world how a professional deals with hecklers.
criticized for not wearing a suit
Sometimes I don’t understand people. I’d love to see more politicians in normal clothes. It’s kind of childish to expect a suit for no reason, isn’t it?
Honestly, I’ve been around long enough that I associate suits with dishonesty. Car sales, real estate agents, lawyers, finance, politicians,… is there a pattern here, or no?
I started my professional career suited up, but transitioned away as I realised all our technical people who knew their shit, rolled up their sleeves and got it done didn’t wear them. The suits were managers making unrealistic schedules, and sales teams promising the world just to secure the next bonus.
Someone like Trump has never experienced real work. So let the con man wear his costume. It suits him.
I don’t think it was an intentional pun.
. He theatrically exclaims how the Oval office is being dIsReSPecTed!!!111!
And Trump using the Oval Office to sell another of his silly red hats for personal profit earlier in the week wasn’t disrespecting it?
Remember when he endorsed Goya beans in the Oval Office? Good times.
I wonder how long it will take NYT to notice that…
Once it’s in their oligarch-owner’s interest
I’m sure the NYT has noticed, but their attorneys probably advise against making medical claims about sitting presidents. Especially since the current one is particularly litigious.
Ohh, I thought Biden was sitting president last year when they were pounding it on and on and on…
That was one of the most disgusting and rage-inducing videos I’ve ever seen. I would not have been able to restrain myself from punching Trump in the fucking nose if he had talked to me like that. I’m not a tough guy or violent in any way, and the Secret Service would have killed me, but the way he yells such insulting things at a world leader who is trying to save millions of lives… holy crap. And then Vance jumps in and claims he never said Thank You. I would’ve kicked him in the nuts and said, “thank you, now I feel better.”
This was a setup from the get go. They had no intention of signing any deal. This was all to get him in front of cameras with them so they could piss on his face and act like tough guys.
Trump had a reason for doing what he did. The former head of Kazakhstan’s intelligence service said 40-year-old Donald Trump was recruited by the KGB in 1987
I particularly love the part where he says Obama sent them sheets and Trump sent them Javelins* then pauses to look at the camera and tell the media that that’s their headline. He may be losing his marbles, but that attention whore instinct goes straight to the core
* *Not sure if that’s the military aid he tried to block in order to coerce them into investigating the son of a political rival, or if he’s just taking credit for the aid sent under Biden that he actively opposed. Either way, it’s fucking rich for him to take credit for military aid when he is personally responsible for delaying and reducing the aid Ukraine got.
Trump won’t be mean to Putin because he wants to “make a deal” but he seems to be fine insulting the fuck out of Zelensky.
Trump was so backed into a corner he reflexively rambled about Hunter Biden’s laptop and Hillary Clinton. What a joke. Then doubling down on Vance’s inane rambling about not showing gratitude, channelling peak abusive parent energy.
All because Zelensky made very reasonable points about requiring guarantees.
Absolute amateurs.
Yep. Trump is barely more intelligible than Alex Jones at this point. They’re both just as honest
and thiel has the puppy in the corner vance on a leash telling him to bark when trump does.
Too bad there is no republican in congress sophisticated enough to realize they tied their cart to a psychotic, inane, horse that is going to drive them over a cliff.
There are plenty of GOPers who realize this. The problem is that GOPers have neither the guts nor nuts to DO anything about it.
Wow that went worse than I thought it would. TBH I was thinking he might actually pull off a win here.
I’m left with my original thought that Trump is actively trying to destroy America. Everything he and Elon are doing seems to be doing nothing but undermine standing and stability. Truly mind bending. I wonder when/if MAGA will snap from the trance.
That was my take away too, especially side by side with illegally dismantling USAID (and with it, US soft power) and a ton of functional agencies (e.g. NOAA, FDIC) that don’t cost much and protect us both physically and financially. If I wrote a playbook of how to quickly cripple a county, it would pretty much be this.
The US should feel embarassed for this.
Those of us who didn’t vote for him, actual Americans, do.
No true scotsman.
Thought-terminating cliche. Don’t do that.
It’s not a cliché, it’s a cop-out fallacy. Those 77 million Americans that voted for trump are just as American as OP. For better or for worse they now represent the whole country.
Yup. MAGAs are just as American as any other American. If they really want to deal with this, just whinging like elected Democrats isn’t gonna help. They’ve got to actually organize in meatspace.
If they were American, they would be following American values and laws.
also, if we ever got so lucky to get rid of this this mess, it won’t the MAGAs who will do the cleanup.
Zekenskyy did the best he could; he came in humility and he really didn’t have any cards at that table. He had no cards because he didn’t come to play, he came to capitulate to the whims of a tyrant to try and save the lives of his countrymen by signing a one-sided deal.
That video will go down in history as one of the greatest moments of infamy in this age - if there were any justice Trump and the puppet masters behind him should be tried for the spark that lit the third world war.
he came in
humilityhumblyor
he came
inwith humility
I just watched the last half of the full meeting. Zelensky asked what guarantees there are the Russians won’t just invade again. The subtext of which is an offer to house US troops in Ukraine. But all the fucking clown car heard was a challenge to their machismo.
So they shouted him down and just loudly asserted he would either sign their deal or fight it out. Along the way they manage to insult him by treating him like a child and pretending that previous broken agreements, (invasion of Crimea, Invasion of Donetsk, and Invasion of Ukraine) were because Putin didn’t respect the American President enough. But Putin is also the victim in all of this according to Trump.
I’ve seen better diplomacy from a high school football team.
For more subtext, if there were any real guarantees then this would not have happened in the meeting with the press. Zelensky would have told reporters there were guarantees. This entire blow up means that Trump already told him there would be no guarantees other than the honor system. Which, even if Trump is right, (Putin respects Trump and won’t invade while he’s president), Zelensky knows that means Putin will invade again in 2028 after Trump’s term is over. And that’s without getting into all of the implications about Putin holding this over Trump’s head for concessions so Trump can appear to be the peacemaker.
I agree with Trump on one thing. We’re fucking around with World War 3, but Trump isn’t a peacemaker, he’s Chamberlain. Right down to berating the leaders who are asking for help to stop the aggressive country.
Which, even if Trump is right, (Putin respects Trump and won’t invade while he’s president), Zelensky knows that means Putin will invade again in 2028 after Trump’s term is over.
I realize that the first half of that is speaking about what Trump thinks (as opposed to you claiming it yourself) so this isn’t me trying to contradict you, but I think it’s important that we all keep in mind the actual reality of the situation:
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Putin doesn’t respect Trump in the slightest; Trump is his useful idiot.
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To the extent that it’s true that Putin wouldn’t invade while Trump is president, it’s only because (a) neutering the US by having his patsy as President achieves pretty much all the same geopolitical goals as creating a buffer state out of Ukraine does anyway, and (b) making Trump look good as a “peacemaker” is self-serving because it helps keep his patsy in place longer.
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Trump’s not leaving in 2028, unless he’s dead.
I agree with Trump on one thing. We’re fucking around with World War 3, but Trump isn’t a peacemaker, he’s Chamberlain. Right down to berating the leaders who are asking for help to stop the aggressive country.
Trump’s not Chamberlain either. He’s Stalin, making a secret agreement with Hitler (Putin) to carve up Poland (Ukraine) like a thanksgiving turkey. (The analogy is a little awkward because Russia is playing the role of Germany in it instead of itself, but I was going by who attacked the country being carved up first.)
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I wanted to point out something about what Trump said during that meeting…
“You’re in a bad position right now. You don’t have the cards.”
My understanding is that Ukraine did have the cards, they were called nukes, but they gave them up for peace and guarantees of protection from the United States, and others, against invasion.
And then, they got invaded.
Twice.
Edit: https://www.npr.org/2022/02/21/1082124528/ukraine-russia-putin-invasion
Edit2: Always pay attention to what the other hand is doing.
The other hand just released that trumps name shows up 7 times in Eppstein’s flight logs.
No, not a joke, it was released today by trumps own minions.
Trump, like every arogant POS has overestimated his strength. Europe can and will enter the conflict as Russia has proven itself to be an existential threat. NATO is dead, but EU has been planning for this. I wouldn’t be surprised if UKR already has or will obtain a nuke and put on a show of force . Nuking Russian troops on its own territory would be fine- and provide ground denial to the Russians.
NATO is dead
Somebody better tell them. In the meanwhile, their twin sibling, OTAN, will take over.
I wouldn’t be surprised if UKR already has or will obtain a nuke
I’d think they would have stopped their war by now if so.
Nuking Russian troops on its own territory would be fine
I’m sure Mr. Radiation will cooperate and not float over any innocent cities, and will stay inside of the political borders where the bomb went off.
I’m also sure that nobody would consider retaliating over something like that, as it would be taken as just a minor misunderstanding.
And yes, /s .
Didn’t Russia have the keys to those nukes though?
