I find it hilarious that the first architecture change in 10 years, that happened seven years ago, still causes anxiety and pain for people who don’t even use that operating system and probably never did.
I wonder how much Linux usership is owed to people being completely incapable of dealing with a minor inconvenience they once encountered (or only saw a meme about) on an apple product.
The sun puts out less energy than is wasted by people hating on Apple for completely and utterly irrational reasons.
An equal amount of wasted energy is output defending a trillion dollar corporation that doesn’t care about those defending them at all. Apple be fine. Let’s just use our computers and move on with our lives; it doesn’t have to be personal.
Defending the truth seems worthwhile to me. Even if for a mega corporation. There are valid criticisms to be used… but this is not one of them. We can do better!
I’m pretty sure the meme is factually correct: you can’t run 32 bit applications on current versions of macOS. Unless something has changed recently that I don’t know of. Doesn’t iOS also force updating apps? I have a vague memory of my partner not being able to use an “old” version of an app and also not being able to update it so they simply couldn’t use it. That could be on the app developer though. Both of those a relevant to “old apps”.
If the meme is referring only to arm64 then eh I guess it’s a bit of a stretch but whatever, it’s a meme.
I agree there are many more, and much more annoying, criticisms though.
I haven’t used iOS in 10 years, but I do recall that even on older Android devices, Netflix wants you to keep closer to the current version (oddly enough, even for a 1st or 2nd gen Chromecast?). So I think not technically, although I don’t know the current status, but even so, yeah, but same as Android too. Ofc, at some point the device gets so old that Apple won’t let you update it any longer, so that’s one way to get it to stop updating:-P.
In researching this a bit more, I confirm that 64-bit Mac not running 32-bit programs is a valid criticism. However, my original point stands: what Linux system can also allow you to do similarly? Especially across a different chip set - like why expect a 64-bit Mac M-something to run a 32-bit game compiled for Windows using a x86 architecture, without needing to install something else to specifically handle that transition? Here is an example of someone doing the same with Ubuntu, needing to first install multiple libraries before it will “just work”.
Even so, there are multiple ways to make this procedure work on a Mac. Other than dual booting with an older copy of a 32-bit OS, emulators can work at near native speeds. Granted, it’s not as convenient as Wine (I would guess?), and won’t be until someone puts in the effort to make a 64-bit version of Wine (which does exist) that will natively support 32-bit programs, again compiled for a different OS (Windows) and chip architecture (x86). It only won’t work until… you know, it does.
Which it already does, using the likes of either Parallels or VMWare Fusion, which yeah requires the complexity of downloading an additional program and setting up a VM environment.
On the other hand, notice how according to this meme, there are zero problems with Linux, like EVER. In comparison, having to download an extra program, due to an event that happened all of once in the last 20 years of computing, and even that was 6 years ago now… apparently that’s “too much work”? How did this meme creator (which seems not OP according to other comments here) figure out how to join a Lemmy - wouldn’t having to pick an instance first likewise be too much to handle?! 😜
I kid, but this kind of tribal thinking (“in-group good, out-group bad”) doesn’t help anything, imho.
Hmm the type of thinking that implies Linux users only say bad things about Apple because they don’t know what they’re talking about? :)
You can 100% run 32 bit binaries on Linux systems so the answer is all of them. The need for libraries isn’t the same as the complete inability to do so, any program with dependencies of course needs them and they of course have to be compatible. Hell with binfmt_misc you can even run arm32/aarch64 binaries, but that’s not fair I guess since it’ll be transparent qemu emulation, although still pretty cool.
Also my view of this meme isn’t that it’s implying that there are no issues, just that it doesn’t force things on you or stop you from doing things which is generally true.
Based on some of their arguments it feels like they’ve never actually used a Mac. “It’s for babies and old people” they cry, like there’s not an entire Unix system under the hood.
That’s like saying there is an entire Linux system under Android. Sure there is, but there is enough in the way to make the kernel not really accessible not have access to many normal Linux functions (like ifconfig).
Are Linux users really working in the kernel all that much? I’ve been doing support for Linux sysadmins for a decade and not once have I needed to touch the kernel.
I mis-phrased that, sorry. In the Android case, you can’t access a lot of networking functionality and other lower level access functions.
Running ifconfig responses with:
Warning: cannot open /proc/net/dev (Permission denied). Limited output.
Even though it is based on Linux, and has access to the ifconfig app, it’s not really something you can do. There are other things to consider like that. While you could try to give yourself root access, it’s messy and not something that’s really easy or encouraged.
In macOS’s case, it’s Unix to a point, but try installing NVIDIA cards in them (for CUDA cores). There are Unix drivers for Nvidia cards, for x86 and ARM, but even thought it’s Unix, it still won’t work.
How about running native Vulcan? It’s a major API for 3D graphics. It has a Unix driver, but still can’t work on macOS. Best that can be done is workarounds, but that’s not native and has issues.
There is Unix support for these, but macOS isn’t really Unix underneath.
Okay, that makes more sense. Though the amount of trouble I’ve heard Linux folks have with Nvidia stuff shouldn’t mean that it’s not Linux. Just that Nvidia sucks.
Also, Vulkan seems to have a ton of support for Apple Silicon.
And finally, Mac OS has been certified Unix 03 since 2009 except for version 10.7
Vulkan has hacked in support, but not official support. It’s like saying that because I can hack in Flash on macOS, that must mean that it has tons of support. Two different things.
And macOS is Unix certified, but that doesn’t make it Unix (I know, it’s complicated…) To help show this, EulerOS (from Huawei) is a Linux OS.
EulerOS is a high-security, highly scalable, high-performance, open enterprise Linux operating system
Its was also Unix 03 certified, just like macOS. Even though it’s Linux, not Unix.
Mac is arguably more Unix than Linux is. Mind you, that doesn’t make it better, but yeah, why not allow people the freedom to choose?
Especially if your workplace is picking up the tab for the device, and all the more so if the only options are Windows vs. Mac bc that’s what the company has knowledge of due to them being used before.
Linux is great. Windows sucks ass. Mac is also great. What is so hard about saying that?
Mac is not great bc it is incredibly expensive and very restrictive, fully closed source. Most apps are paywalled too, you can barely do anything on a Mac if you are broke
It’s probably more likely that they just needed to find something bad to say about Macs, and were too lazy to find one of the actual legitimate reasons (like it being closed source or something? probably bc the one used “sounds better”, to someone who can’t recognize that it is gaslighting).
The amount of purity whinging in Linux communities generally makes me sorry whenever I respond to one of these posts. On the other hand, I am not smart so here goes once more into the fray… 🤪
I find it hilarious that the first architecture change in 10 years, that happened seven years ago, still causes anxiety and pain for people who don’t even use that operating system and probably never did.
I wonder how much Linux usership is owed to people being completely incapable of dealing with a minor inconvenience they once encountered (or only saw a meme about) on an apple product.
The sun puts out less energy than is wasted by people hating on Apple for completely and utterly irrational reasons.
An equal amount of wasted energy is output defending a trillion dollar corporation that doesn’t care about those defending them at all. Apple be fine. Let’s just use our computers and move on with our lives; it doesn’t have to be personal.
Defending the truth seems worthwhile to me. Even if for a mega corporation. There are valid criticisms to be used… but this is not one of them. We can do better!
I’m pretty sure the meme is factually correct: you can’t run 32 bit applications on current versions of macOS. Unless something has changed recently that I don’t know of. Doesn’t iOS also force updating apps? I have a vague memory of my partner not being able to use an “old” version of an app and also not being able to update it so they simply couldn’t use it. That could be on the app developer though. Both of those a relevant to “old apps”.
If the meme is referring only to arm64 then eh I guess it’s a bit of a stretch but whatever, it’s a meme.
I agree there are many more, and much more annoying, criticisms though.
I haven’t used iOS in 10 years, but I do recall that even on older Android devices, Netflix wants you to keep closer to the current version (oddly enough, even for a 1st or 2nd gen Chromecast?). So I think not technically, although I don’t know the current status, but even so, yeah, but same as Android too. Ofc, at some point the device gets so old that Apple won’t let you update it any longer, so that’s one way to get it to stop updating:-P.
In researching this a bit more, I confirm that 64-bit Mac not running 32-bit programs is a valid criticism. However, my original point stands: what Linux system can also allow you to do similarly? Especially across a different chip set - like why expect a 64-bit Mac M-something to run a 32-bit game compiled for Windows using a x86 architecture, without needing to install something else to specifically handle that transition? Here is an example of someone doing the same with Ubuntu, needing to first install multiple libraries before it will “just work”.
Even so, there are multiple ways to make this procedure work on a Mac. Other than dual booting with an older copy of a 32-bit OS, emulators can work at near native speeds. Granted, it’s not as convenient as Wine (I would guess?), and won’t be until someone puts in the effort to make a 64-bit version of Wine (which does exist) that will natively support 32-bit programs, again compiled for a different OS (Windows) and chip architecture (x86). It only won’t work until… you know, it does.
Which it already does, using the likes of either Parallels or VMWare Fusion, which yeah requires the complexity of downloading an additional program and setting up a VM environment.
On the other hand, notice how according to this meme, there are zero problems with Linux, like EVER. In comparison, having to download an extra program, due to an event that happened all of once in the last 20 years of computing, and even that was 6 years ago now… apparently that’s “too much work”? How did this meme creator (which seems not OP according to other comments here) figure out how to join a Lemmy - wouldn’t having to pick an instance first likewise be too much to handle?! 😜
I kid, but this kind of tribal thinking (“in-group good, out-group bad”) doesn’t help anything, imho.
Hmm the type of thinking that implies Linux users only say bad things about Apple because they don’t know what they’re talking about? :)
You can 100% run 32 bit binaries on Linux systems so the answer is all of them. The need for libraries isn’t the same as the complete inability to do so, any program with dependencies of course needs them and they of course have to be compatible. Hell with
binfmt_miscyou can even run arm32/aarch64 binaries, but that’s not fair I guess since it’ll be transparent qemu emulation, although still pretty cool.Also my view of this meme isn’t that it’s implying that there are no issues, just that it doesn’t force things on you or stop you from doing things which is generally true.
Based on some of their arguments it feels like they’ve never actually used a Mac. “It’s for babies and old people” they cry, like there’s not an entire Unix system under the hood.
That’s like saying there is an entire Linux system under Android. Sure there is, but there is enough in the way to
make the kernel not really accessiblenot have access to many normal Linux functions (like ifconfig).Are Linux users really working in the kernel all that much? I’ve been doing support for Linux sysadmins for a decade and not once have I needed to touch the kernel.
I mis-phrased that, sorry. In the Android case, you can’t access a lot of networking functionality and other lower level access functions.
Running ifconfig responses with:
Even though it is based on Linux, and has access to the ifconfig app, it’s not really something you can do. There are other things to consider like that. While you could try to give yourself root access, it’s messy and not something that’s really easy or encouraged.
In macOS’s case, it’s Unix to a point, but try installing NVIDIA cards in them (for CUDA cores). There are Unix drivers for Nvidia cards, for x86 and ARM, but even thought it’s Unix, it still won’t work.
How about running native Vulcan? It’s a major API for 3D graphics. It has a Unix driver, but still can’t work on macOS. Best that can be done is workarounds, but that’s not native and has issues.
There is Unix support for these, but macOS isn’t really Unix underneath.
Okay, that makes more sense. Though the amount of trouble I’ve heard Linux folks have with Nvidia stuff shouldn’t mean that it’s not Linux. Just that Nvidia sucks.
Also, Vulkan seems to have a ton of support for Apple Silicon.
And finally, Mac OS has been certified Unix 03 since 2009 except for version 10.7
Vulkan has hacked in support, but not official support. It’s like saying that because I can hack in Flash on macOS, that must mean that it has tons of support. Two different things.
And macOS is Unix certified, but that doesn’t make it Unix (I know, it’s complicated…) To help show this, EulerOS (from Huawei) is a Linux OS.
Its was also Unix 03 certified, just like macOS. Even though it’s Linux, not Unix.
Mac is arguably more Unix than Linux is. Mind you, that doesn’t make it better, but yeah, why not allow people the freedom to choose?
Especially if your workplace is picking up the tab for the device, and all the more so if the only options are Windows vs. Mac bc that’s what the company has knowledge of due to them being used before.
Linux is great. Windows sucks ass. Mac is also great. What is so hard about saying that?
Mac is not great bc it is incredibly expensive and very restrictive, fully closed source. Most apps are paywalled too, you can barely do anything on a Mac if you are broke
It’s probably more likely that they just needed to find something bad to say about Macs, and were too lazy to find one of the actual legitimate reasons (like it being closed source or something? probably bc the one used “sounds better”, to someone who can’t recognize that it is gaslighting).
The amount of purity whinging in Linux communities generally makes me sorry whenever I respond to one of these posts. On the other hand, I am not smart so here goes once more into the fray… 🤪
I just don’t get this delusion that “closed source” = evil.
Then again, I never “got” fanatical movements or beliefs.
Said the guy defending Apple on Lemmy. Oh, boy.
Do you often hallucinate things I never said? What am I not saying now?
I’m sure in your head that was a great comeback. Good job, champ.