A study by researchers at the Brown University School of Public Health found that avoidable mortality rose across all U.S. states from 2009 to 2021, while it declined in most other high-income countries.
I’m curious, how much is a typical doctor’s visit in the U.S. without insurance of any kind? Just a straight out of pocket sort of expense. $50, $100, $250, $500, $1000? I assume that it scales based on more complicated procedures or longer visits, but what about the basics, like going in for what you think is a bad cold or the flue, maybe a rash or something along those lines?
A bad cold or flu you probably wouldn’t go to a doctor, just an urgent care clinic for some antibiotics or whatever. Probably run $100-$150 + cost of meds (hopefully generic).
If urgent care can’t help, an out of pocket visit to primary care provider will be closer to $300 just to step in the door. Hospitals will put you on a payment plan if you can’t front it.
Ah, yes I’ve heard that about stateside hospitals. Apparently there’s an entire department alongside accounting that deals with remediation of accounts payable. Less than ideal, but it sounds as though it costs a lot less that I’d been assuming this whole time.
I’ll stress that’s just to get in the door. Usually if you’re going to the doctor they’ll want to run xrays, CT scans, MRIs, blood tests, whatever diagnostics and it starts escalating fast.
But this is stuff people can plan for. Emergency visits are much worse in my experience, suffering from appendicitis would have put us $40k in the hole overnight without insurance.
"Rogozov had intended to use a mirror to help him operate but he found its inverted view too much of a hindrance so he ended up working by touch, without gloves.
As he reached the final and hardest part of the operation, he almost lost consciousness. He began to fear he would fail at the final hurdle.
‘The bleeding is quite heavy, but I take my time… Opening the peritoneum, I injured the blind gut and had to sew it up,’ Rogozov wrote. ‘I grow weaker and weaker, my head starts to spin. Every four to five minutes I rest for 20 - 25 seconds.’
‘Finally here it is, the cursed appendage! With horror I notice the dark stain at its base. That means just a day longer and it would have burst… My heart seized up and noticeably slowed, my hands felt like rubber. Well, I thought, it’s going to end badly and all that was left was removing the appendix.’
But he didn’t fail. After nearly two hours he had completed the operation, down to the final stitch."
That story about Dr. Rogozov always struck me as something superhuman. I’ve only ever managed to perform very minor surgeries on myself, I just can’t imagine a major operation on internal organs - with or without the mirror for extra complication.
Well, that’s the problem, due to changes passed with the Affordable Care Act (aka Obamacare), annual routine screenings are free including women wellness. A lot of people do not know this.
The problem is when they find something wrong. Going to a specialist can easily push from hundreds to thousands.
To add on: it has to be coded correctly for insurance. A “yearly physical” is its own special thing which does not require a copay, and if coded correctly covers like a basic metabolic panel, lipid panel, maybe something less common if family history suggests it. It has to be billed as a “preventative service” for something on this list of what falls under the “free” stuff, if you don’t want a nasty bill. I know a full lab workup for me is billed at around $1600 before insurance, and a primary care visit would be around $300.
Interesting, it’s no wonder that so many Americans have a difficult time with medical bills. I was also under the impression that the Affordable Care Act had been dismantled, it’s a bit tough to catch all of the headlines with so much going on all the time.
A lot of people think that it was gutted, but it’s actually the reason we have a health insurance marketplace and why you can no longer get denied for preexisting conditions. Before it existed, you were just SOL.
Not that it’s cheap, but my employer charges about the same rate for a high deductible plan. If you are low income, you can get cheaper plans.
Healthcare in America isn’t that BAD if you are relatively healthy, but it is nearly impossible to navigate… by design. Now, if you are actually sick, YMMV.
That does make sense, and although I guess it’s good that there are ultra low-cost options available, there’s that old adage about “getting what you pay for” to a certain extent.
As someone with insurance, it’s complicated? So I pay per paycheck on the plan I want. I’m allowed to change this plan once a year or change electives, which will higher what I pay per paycheck or lower based on the plan. I have a wife and 2 kids, and for the plan just under the top it costs me about $600 a month just to be covered (and this is considered really good, I think). If any of us go to our doctors, there is a copay of $30. This copay is based on the plan I picked and have access to. It could be less if I wanted a higher plan or more if I wanted a lower one. This also applies to “urgent care” which is just a quick way to see a doctor if you’re sick and can’t get to your doctor. On top of this, normally you’re allowed a few wellness visits per year with your doctor without copay since they are necessary. If you want to see a specialist the copay can be the same or slightly higher, all depends on your plan. The other kicker, you also need to make sure your doctor or the specialist is in network and takes your insurance. Otherwise, you pay more. Is this crazy yet or make sense?
Other things, hospital or emergency visits, will normally be $100 or way more because they don’t want you to just go to the ER all the time unless absolutely needed. Wildcards, sometimes you need to see people and have no idea what you will pay in the end since sometimes they will do work or use something that isn’t fully covered so you then get a bill a month later telling you insurance only covered this you owe the difference. It’s up to you to figure out if that’s correct or not then go down the path of fighting it. Normally, it’s like the visit is 1k but insurance only covered $950, so you’re now paying another $50 on top of the copay. This happens a lot and is frustrating because you really never know what you will pay in the end. If your married you both can have insurance and submit the remaining cost to the 2nd plan to see what they cover. On top of this, prescriptions have copays as well and have rates based on what the drug is. If you get generic brand it’s normally less, if they don’t have a generic brand you may be lucky and can get the name brand for the generic pricing because they don’t have it.
This is just scratching the surface, I guess to answer your question it’s $30 per visit, but that can change based off above. Also, is it really $30 if I’m also paying $600 per month? Another thing, you can’t just not have insurance. If you don’t, you will have to pay a penalty on your taxes for the time not covered. If you don’t have a job your still required to get a plan and from what I’ve heard those plans can be 1k or more a month for someone who doesn’t even have a job which makes total sense!
“Wildcards, sometimes you need to see people and have no idea what you will pay in the end since sometimes they will do work or use something that isn’t fully covered so you then get a bill a month later telling you insurance only covered this you owe the difference. It’s up to you to figure out if that’s correct or not then go down the path of fighting it.”
This alone would get my hackles up, let alone paying $600+/month for uncertain coverage of treatments and prescriptions. Moreso, it would rub me the wrong way to have someone in my life who was unable to pay in and left up the creek with no paddle. The bit about a tax penalty for absence of coverage is a bit much, does the government really need to kick someone when they’re down? Best of luck to you, it sounds as though you have it well in hand, but I don’t envy you the task.
I hope you realize what he is talking about every single American deals with and I think you missed the part where he is fortunate and this is literally the best case scenario (outside of being rich enough to not give af.)
I do, yes. I’ve read reams and reams of accounts, comments, and articles about the hardships experienced under the current healthcare model in America over the past few decades. The exact costing metric was never addressed though, which is why I asked about it specifically. The whole enterprise of for-profit medicine as carried out under the current insurance model is criminal and immoral by any measure.
The bit about a tax penalty for absence of coverage is a bit much, does the government really need to kick someone when they’re down?
This was struck down in court years ago.
The “stick” was to encourage people to get coverage ahead of time or face the penalty. If they decided not to, the extra tax could help cover unpaid ER visits where they must be treated whether or not they can pay.
The “carrot” At the same time was reduced price insurance based on your income and expanded Medicaid coverage for people who couldn’t afford anything. This was paid for by the federal government but Medicaid is administered by the state: several Repugnancan states refused the money because their politicians were so set against providing free medical care
After the tax “stick” was struck down, coverage dropped without that penalty, and states where they refused the money left millions of lesser paid people without coverage . So yeah, we needed it
You can make sure your doctor is in network, but if someone bills you for other services like an anaesthetists, radiologist or labwork, they may not be and you could get a surprise bill for thousands of dollars.
I’m curious, how much is a typical doctor’s visit in the U.S. without insurance of any kind? Just a straight out of pocket sort of expense. $50, $100, $250, $500, $1000? I assume that it scales based on more complicated procedures or longer visits, but what about the basics, like going in for what you think is a bad cold or the flue, maybe a rash or something along those lines?
A bad cold or flu you probably wouldn’t go to a doctor, just an urgent care clinic for some antibiotics or whatever. Probably run $100-$150 + cost of meds (hopefully generic).
If urgent care can’t help, an out of pocket visit to primary care provider will be closer to $300 just to step in the door. Hospitals will put you on a payment plan if you can’t front it.
Ah, yes I’ve heard that about stateside hospitals. Apparently there’s an entire department alongside accounting that deals with remediation of accounts payable. Less than ideal, but it sounds as though it costs a lot less that I’d been assuming this whole time.
I’ll stress that’s just to get in the door. Usually if you’re going to the doctor they’ll want to run xrays, CT scans, MRIs, blood tests, whatever diagnostics and it starts escalating fast.
But this is stuff people can plan for. Emergency visits are much worse in my experience, suffering from appendicitis would have put us $40k in the hole overnight without insurance.
Holy shit, that’s daunting. I think that I might try cutting it out myself rather than go bankrupt.
You can do it!!!
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32481442
"Rogozov had intended to use a mirror to help him operate but he found its inverted view too much of a hindrance so he ended up working by touch, without gloves.
As he reached the final and hardest part of the operation, he almost lost consciousness. He began to fear he would fail at the final hurdle.
‘The bleeding is quite heavy, but I take my time… Opening the peritoneum, I injured the blind gut and had to sew it up,’ Rogozov wrote. ‘I grow weaker and weaker, my head starts to spin. Every four to five minutes I rest for 20 - 25 seconds.’
‘Finally here it is, the cursed appendage! With horror I notice the dark stain at its base. That means just a day longer and it would have burst… My heart seized up and noticeably slowed, my hands felt like rubber. Well, I thought, it’s going to end badly and all that was left was removing the appendix.’
But he didn’t fail. After nearly two hours he had completed the operation, down to the final stitch."
That story about Dr. Rogozov always struck me as something superhuman. I’ve only ever managed to perform very minor surgeries on myself, I just can’t imagine a major operation on internal organs - with or without the mirror for extra complication.
Oh, I quite agree. Reading through it (again) I had many mental pauses saying to myself, “That’s where I’d die.” An incredible feat for sure.
My experience is that urgent care is significantly more expensive than primary care.
What kind of Doctor? What kind of Visit?
Let’s say the family type, and a checkup for any of the more mundane things above.
Well, that’s the problem, due to changes passed with the Affordable Care Act (aka Obamacare), annual routine screenings are free including women wellness. A lot of people do not know this.
The problem is when they find something wrong. Going to a specialist can easily push from hundreds to thousands.
To add on: it has to be coded correctly for insurance. A “yearly physical” is its own special thing which does not require a copay, and if coded correctly covers like a basic metabolic panel, lipid panel, maybe something less common if family history suggests it. It has to be billed as a “preventative service” for something on this list of what falls under the “free” stuff, if you don’t want a nasty bill. I know a full lab workup for me is billed at around $1600 before insurance, and a primary care visit would be around $300.
Interesting, it’s no wonder that so many Americans have a difficult time with medical bills. I was also under the impression that the Affordable Care Act had been dismantled, it’s a bit tough to catch all of the headlines with so much going on all the time.
Affordable Care Act is mostly still there, but
Also the current administration is trying to
A lot of people think that it was gutted, but it’s actually the reason we have a health insurance marketplace and why you can no longer get denied for preexisting conditions. Before it existed, you were just SOL.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Care_Act
Not that it’s cheap, but my employer charges about the same rate for a high deductible plan. If you are low income, you can get cheaper plans.
Healthcare in America isn’t that BAD if you are relatively healthy, but it is nearly impossible to navigate… by design. Now, if you are actually sick, YMMV.
Typically, out of pocket no insurance cost for primary care physician visit is around $200-300.
If you know the doctor, maybe $100 if he or she does a sliding scale.
That’s encouraging, at least. It’s not cheap per se, but definitely not as exorbitant as I assumed.
For most lower income Americans that can be cost prohibitive.
There are some lower cost options:
CVS and some other retailers have mini clinics where you see a nurse practitioner. Out of pocket these visits can be $50-100 out of pocket.
Some hospitals and health departments offer free clinics but they are often busy.
Online options have become more popular but they often are limited to very simple issues (e.g. sinus infections, allergies, etc).
This assumes you don’t need a prescription or labs.
From a prescription standpoint, Walmart still offers $4 prescriptions for very common drugs. Again out of pocket.
Labs your sort of SOL.
That does make sense, and although I guess it’s good that there are ultra low-cost options available, there’s that old adage about “getting what you pay for” to a certain extent.
As someone with insurance, it’s complicated? So I pay per paycheck on the plan I want. I’m allowed to change this plan once a year or change electives, which will higher what I pay per paycheck or lower based on the plan. I have a wife and 2 kids, and for the plan just under the top it costs me about $600 a month just to be covered (and this is considered really good, I think). If any of us go to our doctors, there is a copay of $30. This copay is based on the plan I picked and have access to. It could be less if I wanted a higher plan or more if I wanted a lower one. This also applies to “urgent care” which is just a quick way to see a doctor if you’re sick and can’t get to your doctor. On top of this, normally you’re allowed a few wellness visits per year with your doctor without copay since they are necessary. If you want to see a specialist the copay can be the same or slightly higher, all depends on your plan. The other kicker, you also need to make sure your doctor or the specialist is in network and takes your insurance. Otherwise, you pay more. Is this crazy yet or make sense?
Other things, hospital or emergency visits, will normally be $100 or way more because they don’t want you to just go to the ER all the time unless absolutely needed. Wildcards, sometimes you need to see people and have no idea what you will pay in the end since sometimes they will do work or use something that isn’t fully covered so you then get a bill a month later telling you insurance only covered this you owe the difference. It’s up to you to figure out if that’s correct or not then go down the path of fighting it. Normally, it’s like the visit is 1k but insurance only covered $950, so you’re now paying another $50 on top of the copay. This happens a lot and is frustrating because you really never know what you will pay in the end. If your married you both can have insurance and submit the remaining cost to the 2nd plan to see what they cover. On top of this, prescriptions have copays as well and have rates based on what the drug is. If you get generic brand it’s normally less, if they don’t have a generic brand you may be lucky and can get the name brand for the generic pricing because they don’t have it.
This is just scratching the surface, I guess to answer your question it’s $30 per visit, but that can change based off above. Also, is it really $30 if I’m also paying $600 per month? Another thing, you can’t just not have insurance. If you don’t, you will have to pay a penalty on your taxes for the time not covered. If you don’t have a job your still required to get a plan and from what I’ve heard those plans can be 1k or more a month for someone who doesn’t even have a job which makes total sense!
This alone would get my hackles up, let alone paying $600+/month for uncertain coverage of treatments and prescriptions. Moreso, it would rub me the wrong way to have someone in my life who was unable to pay in and left up the creek with no paddle. The bit about a tax penalty for absence of coverage is a bit much, does the government really need to kick someone when they’re down? Best of luck to you, it sounds as though you have it well in hand, but I don’t envy you the task.
I hope you realize what he is talking about every single American deals with and I think you missed the part where he is fortunate and this is literally the best case scenario (outside of being rich enough to not give af.)
I do, yes. I’ve read reams and reams of accounts, comments, and articles about the hardships experienced under the current healthcare model in America over the past few decades. The exact costing metric was never addressed though, which is why I asked about it specifically. The whole enterprise of for-profit medicine as carried out under the current insurance model is criminal and immoral by any measure.
This was struck down in court years ago.
The “stick” was to encourage people to get coverage ahead of time or face the penalty. If they decided not to, the extra tax could help cover unpaid ER visits where they must be treated whether or not they can pay.
The “carrot” At the same time was reduced price insurance based on your income and expanded Medicaid coverage for people who couldn’t afford anything. This was paid for by the federal government but Medicaid is administered by the state: several Repugnancan states refused the money because their politicians were so set against providing free medical care
After the tax “stick” was struck down, coverage dropped without that penalty, and states where they refused the money left millions of lesser paid people without coverage . So yeah, we needed it
You can make sure your doctor is in network, but if someone bills you for other services like an anaesthetists, radiologist or labwork, they may not be and you could get a surprise bill for thousands of dollars.
If you have to go to the Emergency Department, $1000 is you won the lottery.
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