I’m not sure if this is the right community for this question, but it says “no stupid question” so here goes. I’m an Israeli who now lives in the US, but I am considering permanently residing in the US or elsewhere (perhaps somewhere in Europe or Canada) because I’ve become kinda disillusioned with Israel for a variety of reasons (the war in Gaza being one of them, the erosion of democracy by Likud being another, and etc) but is that cowardly to leave? Should I go back and try to change society or should I just leave for good? Thanks for your time.
As a Russian Jew who fled the Russia in the 1980s, my family moved for our safety and opportunity. Countries don’t deserve reverence just for being countries. We can be proud of our heritage without having to show allegiance to a nation state. Especially, when it is using our ethnicity/religion to brutally wipe out and massacre a civilian population.
Just do what is best for you and your family.
Well, if Israel loses the support of other countries, there might not be an Israel. Id also hide the fact youre a Jew, anti-semitism is on the rise, not just anti-zionism.
Yeah I know anti semitism is on the rise, which does make me weary, but there’s also lots of institutional support against racism and anti semitism
I want to tell you to not listen to these comments, but all of them tell you to decide for yourself. Well, you asked the question, so I will answer.
Yes, and move to Palestine.
So weird
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The US is helping Israel’s war in Gaza yes, but so are most European countries to be fair. I guess I meant more that the war is far away and won’t affect me and my kid personally over here.
You need to do whats best for yourself, but it sounds like Israel would be a better place with your voice in it.
How do you mean?
It’s not super relevant but Israel doesn’t allow offshore voting, the only way to vote if you live abroad is to physically travel to Israel on voting day. (This doesn’t apply to those on official government business, like ambassadors or navy soldiers or whatnot)
Should I go back and try to change society or should I just leave for good?
“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference”
I can’t tell you what to do but I can tell you that getting out of a bad situation you had no hand in creating doesn’t make you a coward, it just means you’re rational.
Thanks :)
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i personally think whoever still lives in israel or palestine and maybe even has kids there, after 80 years of conflict, is crazy. it’s basically “the badlands” and i think you should cut ties and settle down in a safer environment.
i don’t think the US or Canada is the perfect place to live, but it’s definitely better and safer than israel. i think EU, New Zealand, Australia and Britain would be even better, but you already live in the US and moving to another nation is often a lot of work, so maybe it’s best to stay there. The differences in quality of life are very small IMO.
Yeah I gave birth to a son here in the US, which I think is a better environment for him than Israel personally.
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to just get up and move country? Or to try to immigrate from a war zone to a developed country? Have you seen how the (especially non white/european) people who try are being treated??
As an ex-Israeli I was lucky enough to be able to do it many many years ago because I have dual nationality and family elsewhere I was able to depend on, but most Israelis, never mind Palestinians, don’t have either, or the money to be able to afford to move, or a country that will allow them in.
Check your privilege.Yes, I have an idea. My family is very international. It’s a lot of work to move country, as I mentioned. One of many good steps is to look for work in other countries and get educated, which also solves being poor.
Apologists like you contribute to people raising children in dangerous conditions. Families had 80 years to relocate.
I have very limited empathy for people having children in and near heavily contested areas.
If you could make change, you could probably make change in other countries as well.
Less so since I’m not a citizen of those countries.
My family left Iran before I was born and I’m grateful they did. What could we have done to change the country from within? Unfortunately nothing.
I have nothing nice to say about the state of Israel, but as an individual you owe it to yourself to live wherever you can that you will be happiest. I can think of reasons to leave the US, including its support for Israel, but I know I would be unhappy anywhere else and my leaving wouldn’t change anything.
From what I understand, the situation in Israel seems especially bad lately. I do not blame any Israeli for wanting to get out or not go back.
The only thing you can actually change is yourself.
That’s a huge NOPE. You can organize, unionize, fight
In general I agree but this is Israel we’re talking about here.
Holy defeatism, Batman!
I changed my bed sheets on the weekend. Check mate.
to ask questions even while anxious is something to be commended on especially since you aren’t sure about what the right choices could be
I think it’s actually brave to ask for help especially in difficult situations such as the one you’re in
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” - Marcus Aurelius
Should I go back and try to change society or should I just leave for good?
This brings back memories from a well known anime called Code Geass where 2 of the characters have a debate on whether change can either be born from within the system or if it must be made externally
- Lelouch vs Suzaku
Personally I’d say it’s external but I don’t know if this is closest to the truth of the perfect solution
From recent historical records like Hong Kong and Ukraine🌻 vs Russia
- brain drain is a real thing and it seems that to continue living under oppression and subjugation is probably the worst if not wrong decision as you’d be unintentionally sacrificing yourself for a corrupt authority
change is probably a mix of both internal and external
- but to continue living in an state of eroding democracy might be more detrimental than benefical to most
- as I’m writing this, I find it funny that this could be said the same for the fediverse here
Thanks for this response. Israel also is facing AFAIK a slower brain drain because Israelis with education and money tend to move.
Explain to me what you think you, an individual, would do to “change society” in Israel?
Ultimately a society is composed of many individuals. We all play a small part in its change.
would whatever you do as an individual have more of an effect than simply not paying Israeli taxes?
In the grand scheme of things, not paying taxes is also a pretty miniscule thing. The US funding for Israel is pretty big though. If they needed more weapons that your tax dollars would have paid for, I’d guess the tax dollars you paid in the US would go to the same place. I guess the alternative is to live in not-US and not-Israel. But either way, I think the US would just fork up more money anyway.
But the main point I’m making is, bad people will find a way to do bad things. The best way to eliminate bad people is to change their minds.
That’s a question only you can answer. Answering these questions might help you make a decision though.
Do you think Israel’s future is worth fighting for?
Do you have an ability to leave again in the future?
Can you legally vote in Israeli elections without being in Israel?
Are you giving up personal opportunities that are important to you?
Asking other people outright is just going to tell you what other people want you to do.
If you go back will you be forced to fight in the Israeli army? (Deal breaker as far as I’m concerned)
