• 7 Posts
  • 241 Comments
Joined 2 years ago
cake
Cake day: June 18th, 2023

help-circle












  • Another huge issue was that the mods and the community were not on the same page regarding lemmy.world, their admins, and their policies.

    You’re still not, clearly.

    Yes, the community and the mods are clearly still not on the same page on this matter, despite how transparent we’ve been in the OP and how much I’ve been in my replies. “Ah, but you weren’t transparent until after the fact”, that’s addressed later in this comment.

    We understand the concern about trolls/bad-actors/transphobes

    Then .world shouldn’t have been a consideration.

    That’s also addressed later in this comment, but for now I have a question… LW is already federated with LBZ, so how does being hosted there make a difference in terms of transphobes/etc. coming in from LW? The whole point of the fediverse is that those floodgates are already open. We already get loads of LW users on all of the LBZ subs, and we’ve had no issues dealing with them so far on 196. There really isn’t that much to do in order to deal with it, and there are eight of us, so I don’t think the absence of Ada would make that an issue either. Plus, this post demonstrates how much free time I alone have and am willing to put into this community.

    (And I’m not asking this question as an implicit statement. I just think that there must be some aspect of federated platforms that I don’t understand considering it’s relevance to this whole ordeal. (And if you’re thinking “ah, but here’s what Ada said about what you don’t understand about federation!” I addressed it here and here.))

    but we’ve been in contact with the lemmy.world admins for a while now

    Ah yes, and you shared that communication right? Not that there has been communication, but actually what was said?

    I feel like this question was worded weirdly but I will answer according to my best interpretation.

    We felt no need to publish other people’s DMs since that’s generally something you shouldn’t do, especially when establishing a relationship with people… So if you want to see them for yourself, you’ll have to ask Moss, since they were her and Ruud’s DMs. I don’t feel comfortable posting them myself.

    and they’ve assured us that they’d allow us to moderate our community however we saw fit

    First problem - “our community”. You’re all (mods) acting like this is something you own. …

    It is “our” community in the sense that we are, and always have been, responsible for it. We’re not suggesting you owe us your contributions.

    Second problem - “how we saw fit” …

    To speak frankly again, I don’t think the community is largely aware of the moderation that was taking place. (I mean, when is the last time you looked at the instance modlog?) Kolanaki was just one example. Maybe it’ll be illuminating to share my personal reason for taking issue with Ada’s moderation:

    I was sexually abused when I was young, so before I understood I was trans I would say things like “I wouldn’t be intimate with a trans person” because I was scared that it would complicate a matter that was already sensitive for me. I’ve caught a lot of flak online for saying things like that in the past despite having now embraced my identity as a trans person, but I adamantly believe the feelings I expressed were valid from my perspective at the time.

    For this reason, I value giving people patience and hearing them out, even if what they said has a transphobic “vibe”. (At least when what they are expressing isn’t blatant transphobia). When I joined the mod team, this is one of the values I intended to bring to the team.

    That being said, Ada does not give that level of patience. However, I do understand the value of curating a space exclusively dedicated to queer people and their views. Cishet people have damn near the entire internet to express their views in safety, and and Ada does what she does to guarantee a safe space for us. So I don’t blame Ada for how she runs her instance, I just don’t think it aligns with my goals, and many of the other mods here agree.

    Third problem - You (mods) have zero control over the administration and the rules …

    We also have zero control over Ada’s administration, but she was not willing to let us moderate 196 as we saw fit. The .world admins, on the other hand, were.

    assurances to you are meaningless

    We know, hence this part of the OP:

    All this being said, we still failed to communicate that to the community before taking action, which has undermined any assurances that we have given after the fact. We cannot apologize enough for that.

    All this being said, we still failed to communicate that to the community before taking action

    Like I said, repeating the same stuff that is not the main problem

    But it was a problem, so we addressed it.

    We cannot apologize enough for that.

    I mean, you can. Easily. You can all resign.

    I addressed this here.

    We addressed a lot of other things in the post, too. If there’s anything we missed

    Soooo many replies went ignored or just gave the same non-answer. I’d start there. Or by just resigning, which is way more efficient tbh.

    We are people with our own lives and shit to deal with. We cannot respond to every reply, but I’ve given the 196 community an overwhelming amount of my time to address what I can, and I’m continuing to do so.

    Which isn’t to say I respond to every comment, but if a new concern came up that wasn’t addressed in the OP, I responded to the first person to bring it up. My comment history for the past few days is evidence of this.

    I encourage you to voice it here.

    Would you like me to do the same with the rest of the post, or are you seeing why the non-answer answers being given by the mod team completely miss the point?

    To speak frankly again, I’ve exhausted myself with how much time I’ve put into responding to all of the concerns. But if you feel like you have more that wasn’t addressed then just say it. I’ll be here, and I’ll always be willing to continue sacrificing my free time for the sake of you guys understanding what happened, why, and what we are doing differently so there are no problems in the future.

    So calling it heavy handed or “by vibe” is just disparaging nonsense. That moment where people pointed out the example being garbage should really have been another signal to the entire mod team that they aren’t the right fit.

    I’m sorry, but I disagree for the reasons stated above. Kolanaki was banned because he was frustrated with trans people, and that is not a crime. Trans people are people, and people are frustrating sometimes. I don’t see any reason to invalidate his feelings, and he should be free to express them.

    Asking if people agreed with the choice should have been the first step, because clearly a majority of the community agreed with Ada as well.

    This was already addressed here, and I encourage you to read Ada’s reply and my reply to her. Long story short, I did tell people about this months ago in an effort to be more transparent with the community, and I was in favor of a vote, but due to some misunderstandings with Ada I had to remove what I said.

    What I didn’t say in that comment, though, was that the mods didn’t even have time to realize or interject when the change was being made without notice.

    So even the idea of discussing a move was so far removed from when conversation should have happened, if only to get some alignment/input from the community,

    Addressed in the previous two paragraphs, and in many of my comments elsewhere.

    that this should also be a pretty bright lantern light guiding the mod team to resignation.

    Addressed here and in this post.


  • White people also caused all of those things in the past. That doesn’t mean white people inherently do those things. The vast majority of school shooters are straight white men, too, but that doesn’t mean all straight white men are school shooters.

    The USSR was an authoritarian regime. Do you seriously not see that as a bigger issue, and more importantly the cause of all of the things you listed, than the workers owning the means of production???

    Authoritarianism is antithetical to communism no matter how you slice it. It’s also curious that you’re still running defense for nazi-ism.











  • Regarding Moss’ recent post: their specific example of disagreement isn’t about neopronouns but about the broader policy of respecting trans identities—a continuation of the same priorities Ada has upheld.

    Jesus Christ, spujb, no it is not. I know what’s in that post because I wrote a significant portion of it, and revised everything else.

    Nothing that we wrote suggested our move was motivated by Ada’s policy towards respecting trans identities or neopronouns. We were very clear that our differences with Ada stem from her heavy-handed mod actions.

    If you don’t want any ill will, a good start would be to stop putting words in our mouths. Especially words that incite harassment against us. I’m done arguing with you. Do the right thing or don’t, I’m not your boss.