i have heard on the radio war nerd podcast that there is some frustration between the nationalist faction and liberal populace in ukraine over the liberal’s refusal to address reality that the situation is more dire than what the state media is making out to be.
which is kind of amusing to imagine.
suprised they reported this tbh
Or just talk about Gaddafi’s viagra as if our leaders would not sensationalise baseless claims for continued support for a war
I did not appeal to morality, I stated the fact that the decision to helping the rebels in Lybia took into account every regional player given what we knew at the time. And even in that case it was counterproductive in hindsight.
i acknowledge this, i have no desire to struggle for the trough.
Following international law is not about morality, it’s about being able to vaguely know what you can count on and possible consequences when you perform a military calculation or a geopolitical move.
to follow law and order for the sake of law and order, you will find these rules tend to favour the well established, powerful and often rich governments. just like it once was deemed that to attack kings was deem sinful for they conversed with god. the rich and powerful will write laws that benefit them, while maneuvering around them with ease to cripple/destroy their enemies/threats.
the material reality on ground matters immensely, and we the west seek to capitalize on this opportunity (in the ukraine) to liquidate our enemies where ever, whenever possible.
If everyone just takes what they can get away with regardless of others’ interests, the future will just be a series of Iraq and Ukraine wars all over the world, particularly in Africa, Europe and Asia.
my friend, we will live to see many more wars, there are contradictions grander than this, (see ipcc report) - and i assure you, we will be portrayed as the good guys, with hollywood movies on how our soldiers going overseas to do these wars made us feel sad.
honestly i appreciate you attempting to engage this - truthfully, i find the entire premise of appealing to morality in a war fruitless, and my intentions in making the statement above was to imitate that this is a effect that has been repeated for many generations (whether or not it is true).
ultimately people do things to advance their own goals & stamp out contradictions, not on the basis of morality.
this attempt to say this is moral and that isn’t could go on until the next generation of soldiers is born - and it would be pointless because the narrative accepted will often be the media machine with the biggest wallet until some massive contradiction.
ultimately what are your goals here, what are the perspective of the shoes of the russians and the ukrainians, what is the context etc.
perhaps it’s as simply resolved as the issue of the jupiter missles, or perhaps peace was never going to be a option(from your stance of the “russian imperialists” or my stance that the American west desire to remain a world power).
truthfully i am of the opinion the americans seeks to remain a world power [hence the 800 military bases around the world vs the russians 21], and will take advantage of any conflict to pose as the morally high ground in a “just war”, or proxy war in this case.
i don’t think peace was ever an option, russia most likely sees ukraine as a staging ground for nato as it did in operation Barbarossa, or napoleon, or seeks minerals, or believes the new government is too nationalist for their own taste (why does it have to be one point?)
all that matters is that is a war to extinguish contradictions that pose existential threats, another form of competition for capital.
Gaddafi’s troops are committing rape to children en masse, they have issued viagra to mass rape people since the start. this is where your anger and energy need to be. Imagine being outraged at the nation defending itself from mass rape, and those countries that are sending the tools that they’re being asked for to help defend themselves.
https://fortune.com/2023/04/18/russia-propaganda-elections-4-americans-charged-black-empowerment/
https://peoplesdispatch.org/2023/04/20/black-liberation-organizers-indicted-for-opposing-war/
All the same story, different sources (or bias). not including the NAFO dog community sabatoging that eco socialist (Dimitri Lascaris) trying to make peace talks in canada
edited for more clairty & details and spell check.
it’s joever
i recall reading some quote from thomas sankara about how ngos are another extension of control with the quote - “Those who come with wheat, millet, corn or milk, they are not helping us. Those who really want to help us can give us ploughs, tractors, fertilizers, insecticides, watering cans, drills and dams. That is how we would define food aid.” and how “he who feeds you, controls you”
i also just recently listening to the millennials are killing capitalism, with their interview on the sameer project with hala sabbah, where she works in a mutual aid group in palestine and she talks about the interactions between palestinians and the NGOs
how extremely limited and bureaucratic the NGOs are, saying some similar about how the entire objective of the ngo are to control people.
but interesting to see what the perspective from the NGO’s staffer side is like the from the lower ranks jumping through the many hoops