Most games on Steam are proprietary software you don’t control to begin with

But those are small fries, not “the provider of games”

rather than granting them the capacity to run amok in the entire system

WDYM?

1. we don’t run games as root
2. we are speaking about Wine, so what they see is limited to WINEPREFIX

Which wine though?

Most of Proton code is Wine. So basically if you have Wine in your system, library dependencies are not an issue anymore, apart from DLLs that some games require

Valve needs to control the version you use and to provide additional stuff not part of vanilla wine

And that is one of the reasons why I expect them to pull the rug at some point. Why are they doing a fork instead of contributing?

The one part of proton that is built and delivered to your system by Valve? They would have to compile and support it for every set of dependency versions out there.

Then why not let us manage Wine runners, like for example Lutris does?

I don’t see a technical reason that you can’t disable the isolation of shared memory or any other resource. The issue is whether you are given access to disable it.

And that is my issue

But there’s no reason why you shouldn’t be able to install custom containers alongside the default ones in the same way that you can install custom proton versions. Steam just doesn’t provide the interface for it

And that’s exactly my gripe. But I expect it will be easier to push back on using containerization in Proton, than making Valve allow us such control

I believe you would always be able to gain access to the container because it remains a chroot + namespace + cgroup isolation, all of which you can control on your system

I’m less optimistic. I expect they will in the future make it as hard as possible

App developers don’t control what’s on your system either. The container is a huge improvement for them because it at least gives them a known target to build for. They can still bundle dependencies in any way that they would on a non-containerized system. There’s no loss of control from their perspective.

That parenthesis was a tangent on Android Google apps, to show what I am afraid will happen in the future. Currently, in order for Android app to appear in the official Store, developer has to allow Google to repackage their app and sign it with Google key. So while we can inspect what is there in the code of the app in git, we don’t really know what lands on our phones if installed via Google Play

And as for taking the topic back to game developers, when we are talking about games ran with Proton, their known target is Windows anyway

That’s what pressure-vessel is and as shown above you can modify it. And if you couldn’t it would be a tooling issue, not an inherent container disadvantage.

I couldn’t find a way to disable memory separation. And if that’s not available, that is an issue with pressure-vessel, not tools

Compatibility significantly increased after Valve got involved

I think that was only because of additional work spent on games. I haven’t seen an example where a game would not work at all with Wine but would work with Proton. There are improvements on how it runs, of course. But my argument is that if some implementation in Proton makes a game work better, then it should land in mainline Wine

there’s nothing inherent to container technology that prevents you from tinkering with it. Anything that you can’t do currently is because Steam is not designed to allow you to do it. It’s got nothing to do with whether Steam uses containers or not

Yes. But “please, don’t fuck us up” is not something we can enforce

They could remove the containers and still prevent tinkering, eg by using a bundled wine with no way for you to modify it or its launch options

We can always just go back to running Windows version of whole Steam via Wine, as we were doing before Proton

Containers are absolutely necessary to provide reliability across a wide range of distros and to keep games working in the future.

We are going through more or less Wine anyway, the libraries on the system don’t matter as long as Wine compiles

In ideal world it would be pure Wine, with Valve putting merge requests for things they want to change, instead of another EEE that’s only waiting to happen. More like AMD interacts with kernel driver. Valve already runs SteamOS, they can use it to have a stable 100% supported platform for their decks etc

better tooling and documentation to interact with the container

One of the core features of containers is process and process memory separation from host. So in case of headtracking (accessing game’s shared memory), containerization is directly working against it working. It’s not the tooling, it’s the choice of what to use

Linux has had chroot since a long time if we are really afraid about supporting dwindling native client games

How so? The end result is probably the opposite. Without the containers Steam would be less reliable on unsupported distros, which might mean your only choice would be to use Ubuntu LTS. That would be a much bigger loss of control.

We have no control over what they put in those containers. Similar (to put perspective) as we have no control over what Google does in their Gapps (and app developers neither have!), So far we can go inside and inspect what are they running apart from the game’s exe directly. Once they disable the PRESSURE_VESSEL_SHELL=instead we will have no insight into what’s inside. And the other option - if it doesn’t work for some reason (with Wine I don’t really see it happening as what we run doesn’t rely on our OS libraries directly), you can create chroot, additional library packages with old versions, etc. Worst case scenario, Linux community will figure something out

It’s a real hassle for running headtracking. And once they take away the possibility to run xterm instead, we won’t even be able to take a look inside

I’ll take a look at protonhax, thanks. But I’m afraid that will still require to run opentrack twice

Something internal. In order to run a third party app with access to the process (like headtracking), the only way I’ve found out to achieve that was to download a windows version of opentrack too and run it twice. One on Linux side, one inside the container and make them talk to each other via UDP

I really hope Proton would stop running a container. It makes running additional programs harder (opentrack for example) and our computers less ours

You can’t cover a topic in 35-60 seconds, and not with enough nuance that some people won’t misunderstand something fundamental.

In country X there are riots. Side A with side B has been clashing since Wednesday, there are N people killed and M wounded.

That’s 30 seconds and all the nuance that’s needed. Next news

many others won’t, and they’ll get their “facts” from TikTok just because you can ingest a lot of content in a very short time

Then at least they know something is happening

“Just one more funny cat video to boost my mood… It’s only 20sec long, and I can afford that in my schedule.” Replace “cat video and 20sec” with “pull and dollar,” and it sounds just like a gambling addict.

You mean like 9GAG? Or TV being on non-stop? Or radio?

When was the last time you can recall somebody committing arson over losing an app?

I bet it’s happening all the time. It just doesn’t make the news until the next “game videos are causing violence”, “rock music makes you kill yourself”, “Harry Potter is satanism” etc becomes a hot topic to tie it to

If you don’t know why something is happening, I guarantee somebody with an agenda will happily fill in the blanks for you.

When it comes to current affairs there is no getting to real “why”. Any opinion on why is a personal spin. Are you really cross-checking all the sources referenced in 20 minutes video? If not, you are on the mercy of the talking head the same as in 30 secs. Thing is, if you spent on one POV 30 secs and then another few, it becomes apparent what is the fact and what is opinion. To do the same in long formats you have to spend a lot of time on one topic, where there are many happening around the world

short-burst video format is engaging, but it allows no room for nuance, no room for fact checking or deeper breakdowns

it simply is other format, for other means. Since yt started forcing creators to put at least 12min videos for max ads revenue, you can’t cover a meaningful amount of topics in an hour. Unless you start speeding them up and constantly clicking to get to the meat of the video. And that’s why the short format is gaining popularity. That it lacks depth? Of course, but if I’m interested in depth, I go search other formats. Most of the info I want to get is “more or less what is happening everywhere”. I don’t have to understand the nuances of political and societal situation in a country on the other side of the world, to want to know that there are riots there rn

The fact that most of people use it for cats and drama? It’s been there since IRC

What about Manjaro with XFCE? That would have graphical package manager/settings/etc out of the box without being very heavy

There’s a bunch of leaves. Wind blows. One leaf gets blown away. It leaves the leaves

Haiku version:
There’s a bunch of leaves
Wind blows. One gets blown away
It leaves the leaves

Because no no no

I understand that it’s a different model that will not work for everyone. But check out Bandcamp’s payout model. Find new music via internet radio/MusicBrains (I don’t remember RN the name of music exploration based on that)/yt and buy it via the model that is straightforward and at least seems to put the most money in artists’ pockets

Bandcamp also has a “discover” feature where you can set which genres you are interested in. I did find some interesting albums this way too

Duckduckgo is also owned by non-profit?

TIL thanks!

Haven’t heard of Ecosia before. Looks really interesting

Anyone has used it for some time and has some comments?

Current world population is 8 billion. 1000/8000000000 is ~ 1.25*10^-7
So if whole population was a meter, those 1000 people would be smaller than red blood cell

If whole population was a trip around the equator (12756 km), those 1000 people would be ~1.6m

It would be hard to maintain meaningful relations with 1000 people so it feels like a big reach. But on the global scale, that 1000 people is like a drop in the ocean

I think your shitposting is fine

AFAIK Silver Monkey is rather local brand, created by the owners of x-kom. So the group that uses them will be very, very small. Unless those use driver used in some more popular brand, there’s little chance those will be covered by some project that handles configuring mice that aren’t configurable via buttons

Oooh, nice :)

Yup, you just lost the game ;P