• مهما طال الليل@lemm.eeOPM
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    6 days ago

    He would have lost more moderates than he would have regained disillusioned, single-issue voters on the left

    And that’s why we now have president Harris. Clearly a winning strategy.

    Netanyahu would have falsely tied such efforts to antisemitism

    Many Democratic politicians were already doing that.

    there was no scenario in which a president from either party would diplomatically oppose Israel

    A strong argument for voting third party.

    Netanyahu took advantage of this to delay the ceasefire for long enough to help Trump get elected

    So the ceasefire would have been in the Democrats’ best interest yet they sacrificed their chances to win at the altar of Zionism.

    much more at stake than the issue of Gaza alone

    “Genocide is a minor issue if it is happening to people we see as inferior.”

    be entrenched further under a republican administration

    الحشر مع الناس عيد

    complicit in the harm that has come to pass

    Would you say those who voted for Biden in 2020 or stayed home are complicit in the genocide?

    • Zedstrian@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
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      6 days ago

      And that’s why we now have president Harris. Clearly a winning strategy.

      Again, the Israelis wanted the few limitations imposed on them lifted, in addition to the billions of other dollars American oligarchs funneled to Trump in support of other issues, so ultimately intense advertising campaigns in swing states along with propaganda efforts on pro-republican social media platforms far outweighed the electoral benefits of supporting Israel; the point was not adding to Trump’s lead in opposing them.

      Many Democratic politicians were already doing that.

      As were even more Republican ones; at least the far-left is supportive of cutting off aid to Israel, unlike the far-right, while also not propagating its racist, bigoted values.

      A strong argument for voting third party.

      Voting third party in the United States only serves to draw support away from one’s second-preferred candidate to the benefit of one’s least preferred candidate, as demonstrated by the failure of relatively popular third-party right-wing presidential campaigns in 1992 and 1996. Without the implementation ranked choice voting to prevent the spoiler effect, most third-party voters end up with a worse outcome for the issues they support than they’d have gotten with their second-preferred candidate.

      So the ceasefire would have been in the Democrats’ best interest yet they sacrificed their chances to win at the altar of Zionism.

      Not if voters saw it as giving in to terrorism, which is how it would have been spun if Biden had pushed for it. As the media spins Israeli state-backed acts of terror in Palestine as actions of self-defense, most Americans remain supportive of Israel.

      “Genocide is a minor issue if it is happening to people we see as inferior.”

      Again, things will only get worse under Trump.

      Beyond that, it also enables things to get worse for Ukraine. With Ukraine having over 36,000,000 people in contrast to Palestine’s 5,000,000 or Israel’s 10,000,000, Russia’s war crimes there have had a far greater impact than those committed by Israel and Hamas combined. Despite that, Trump’s odd admiration of Putin combined with the strengthened alliance with Israel means than things will not only get worse in Palestine than if Harris had been elected, but in Ukraine as well.

      Would you say those who voted for Biden in 2020 or stayed home are complicit in the genocide?

      No more or less than those who voted for Trump in 2020, or even any leading third-party candidate, since supporting Israel has been a cornerstone of American geopolitics for decades.

      • NSRXN@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
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        6 days ago

        Voting third party in the United States only serves to draw support away from one’s second-preferred candidate to the benefit of one’s least preferred candidate, as demonstrated by the failure of relatively popular third-party right-wing presidential campaigns in 1992 and 1996

        analysis of those elections found that perot actually shrank clinton’s margin of victory. if you don’t know, you can just not say anything.

      • مهما طال الليل@lemm.eeOPM
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        5 days ago

        If Biden pushed for a ceasefire he could say he brought the captives back home. I don’t understand why the Democrats needed to continue the slaughter to win.

        You can’t spin the Democrats’ active participation as helplessness. And if they are as helpless as you claim why should someone who wanted the genocide stopped vote for them?

        I don’t even understand your angle here. Is this outreach? “I am sorry but we have to kill you by the thousands or else Trump will win and make it worse”. It must kill you that there’s a ceasefire now that Trump is president.

        With Ukraine having over 36,000,000 people in contrast to Palestine’s 5,000,000 or Israel’s 10,000,000, Russia’s war crimes there have had a far greater impact than those committed by Israel and Hamas combined.

        You are full of shit. Kiev still has running water and electricity. Gaza has been completely destroyed and had no water or electricity or fuel for over a year.

        Hamas war crimes? Is this something you can seriously say after what Israel did? Do you even recognize that Palestinians have a right to resist? Do you understand that Israel is the occupying military and has no right to defend itself?

        You dehumanize Palestinians and then feel entitled to the Arab and Muslim vote. Fuck off!

        If this is what we will be getting from Democrats, then I don’t see what’s worth saving in US democracy.

        • Zedstrian@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
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          5 days ago

          Although it’s clear I won’t convince you and you won’t convince me, to make it clear, I don’t support the actions of the Israeli government, as I’ve stated in my previous comments. I’m just not laser focused on one political issue and would rather have the lesser of two evils than pretend that a far-right candidate like Trump cares more about civil or human rights than Biden or Harris.

          And yes, although the Israeli army has plenty of war criminals that should be sent to The Hague along with Netanyahu for their actions in Palestine, Lebanon, and Syria, Hamas was never justified in kidnapping Israeli citizens in the first place. Terrorism is never justified, and terrorists on both sides deserve to be tried for their war crimes, as should be the case in any war.

          Netanyahu could have enacted the ceasefire at any point last year, but deliberately waited to do his part in spreading fascism to the US.

          Trump’s overt racism towards Muslims leaves Palestinians worse off than they’ve ever been, with Trump lifting Biden’s sanctions on Israeli settlers in the West Bank, Netanyahu having Trump’s full support, with the high-tonnage bombs that were blocked from being sent to Israel now being allowed at Trump’s order, and Israel’s renewed intrusion into the West Bank demonstrating that Netanyahu intends to do everything he can to continue the war while claiming to be acting in a humanitarian manner, only stopping in Gaza to make it look like Trump had anything to do with it.

          In terms of Ukraine, as nearly 100,000 Ukrainians (civilians and the armed forces of Ukraine and its breakaway regions) have died as a direct result of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, casting aside the suffering that has occurred there is just as disrespectful as the people that ignore the suffering that has occurred in Palestine.

          Given that choosing Trump over Harris not only leaves Palestine worse off, but harms Ukraine, the environment, abortion rights, LGBTQ rights, anti-discrimination efforts, and countless other issues impacting minority groups, enables further corporate profiteering, and normalizes overt bribery and corruption, anyone who would accept all of that in favor of a delusion that Trump cares for a second about the wellbeing of Palestine is just as deluded as Trump’s MAGA supporters.