If you are keen on personal privacy, you might have come across Brave Browser. Brave is a Chromium-based browser that promises to deliver privacy with built-in ad-blocking and content-blocking protection. It also offers several quality-of-life features and services, like a VPN and Tor access. I mean, it’s even listed on the reputable PrivacyTools website. Why am I telling you to steer clear of this browser, then?

  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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    27 days ago

    CEO was forcefully ousted from Firefox for anti-LGBTQ views and donations.

    I think this is making mountains out of molehills. My understanding is that he had a very good working relationship w/ LGBTQ people in the org, and he had been working for many years at Mozilla before this point. The issue was his private donations to an anti-same sex marriage initiative. He didn’t push for any company policy change, didn’t advertise the donation, and didn’t use company funds (used personal funds), so it really shouldn’t be anyone’s business.

    I personally disagree with his political views, but I think he was a fantastic candidate for CEO of Mozilla. How he votes or spends his personal money shouldn’t be relevant at all.

    Replaced existing ads on sites with Brave’s own “private” ads.

    I like this idea in principle, but not in implementation. Brave should have worked with major websites to share revenue, but what Brave actually did was remove website ads and insert its own, forcing websites to go claim BAT to get any of that revenue back.

    My preference here is to not use a cryptocurrency and instead have users pay in their local currency into a bucket to not see ads (and that’s shared w/ the website), and that should be in collaboration w/ website owners.

    Collected crypto on behalf of others without their knowledge or consent

    This is a big nothing-burger.

    Basically, Brave had a way to donate to a creator that wasn’t affiliated with the creator. The way it works is you could donate (using BAT), and once it got to $100 worth, Brave would reach out to the creator to give them the money. They adjusted the wording to make it clear they weren’t affiliated with the creator in any way.

    Injected referral links into crypto websites to steal crypto revenue

    Yeah, this is totally wrong, and they reversed course immediately.

    Put ads in the new page tab

    Not a fan, but at least you can opt-out.

    Shipped a TOR feature that leaked DNS

    Mistakes happen. If you truly need the anonymity, you would have multiple layers of defense (i.e. change your default DNS server) and probably not use something like Brave anyway (Tor Browser is the gold standard here).

    Doesn’t disclose the ID of their search engine crawler via useragent

    Also a bad move, though I am sympathetic to their reasoning here: they just don’t have the resources to get permission from everyone. Search has a huge barrier to entry, and I’m in favor of more competition to Google and Microsoft here.

    Removed “strict” fingerprinting protection

    This was for better UX, since it broke sites. Not a fan of removing this, they should have instead had a big warning when enabling this (e.g. many sites will break if you enable this).

    CEO is generally a right-wing dick.

    Fair, but that should be a separate consideration from whether to use a given product. Using Brave doesn’t make you a right-wing dick.

    You probably wouldn’t like the CEO of any company whose products you like, so basing a decision of what product to use based on that is… dumb.

    I personally use Brave as a backup browser, for two reasons:

    • it’s a chrome-based browser
    • it has ad-blocking

    My primary browser is something based on Firefox because I value rendering-engine competition. But if I need a chromium-based browser, Brave is my go-to. I disable the crypto nonsense and keep ad-blocking on, and it’s generally pretty usable.

    • voodooattack@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      Fair, but that should be a separate consideration from whether to use a given product. Using Brave doesn’t make you a right-wing dick. You probably wouldn’t like the CEO of any company whose products you like, so basing a decision of what product to use based on that is… dumb.

      So it’s ok to buy a Tesla nowadays in your opinion? Genuinely curious.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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        27 days ago

        So it’s ok to buy a Tesla nowadays in your opinion? Genuinely curious.

        Yes, if it’s the vehicle that fits your needs the best. Elon doesn’t need your money, and with Tesla getting roasted in the media, you can probably pick up a good deal.

        That said, I wouldn’t buy a Tesla for other reasons, such as:

        I do boycott certain products though, first among them is Wal-Mart, but that’s because I find Wal-Mart to be anti-competitive (drives smaller stores out of business) and they contribute to poor working conditions either directly (i.e. their own products) or indirectly (i.e. forcing suppliers to cut costs). I’ve been boycotting them for ~20 years, and honestly haven’t bothered checking if they’ve improved. I also try to avoid buying from Amazon for similar reasons.

        Maybe Tesla is similar to those, idk. I personally don’t buy Musk’s products because I find them lacking, and I haven’t needed any more reasons to avoid his products than that.

        I literally don’t care about the political views of the CEO/owner of a company. I dislike Chik-Fil-A’s founder, for example, but I like the food there and the workers seem to be treated well, so I shop there. I especially like that they’re closed on Sundays, which guarantees workers get at least one day off. Whether some idiot gets rich from a fraction of the money I spend on a certain product doesn’t bother me, I mostly care that the business is run well and the product is good.

    • Ulrich@feddit.org
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      27 days ago

      He didn’t push for any company policy change, didn’t advertise the donation, and didn’t use company funds (used personal funds), so it really shouldn’t be anyone’s business.

      It’s everyone’s business that cares about those people.

      How he votes or spends his personal money shouldn’t be relevant at all.

      Using products from a company that benefits him is empowering him to do those things.

      Brave should have worked with major websites to share revenue

      That’s a monumental task. They would have had to create their own ad network similar to Google and then somehow out-compete them to get their business without any of the information that Google has about users.

      they weren’t affiliated with the creator in any way.

      Yes, that’s the problem.

      Yeah, this is totally wrong, and they reversed course immediately.

      Only because they got caught, and they didn’t refund any of the crypto they earned in the interim.

      Mistakes happen.

      When it comes to TOR, mistakes can be a matter of life and death. People only use TOR when they need complete anonymity.

      they should have instead had a big warning when enabling this (e.g. many sites will break if you enable this).

      They did indeed have exactly that. It said in the actual setting itself “Strict, may break sites”.

      You probably wouldn’t like the CEO of any company whose products you like, so basing a decision of what product to use based on that is… dumb.

      Not true. I like Our Lord Gaben. I like Meredith Whitaker. I like lots of CEOs.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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        27 days ago

        It’s everyone’s business that cares about those people.

        But is it though?

        Believing that same-sex marriage shouldn’t be a government-supported institution isn’t the same as believing LGBT people are “invalid” or “wrong” or whatever.

        For example, I personally oppose government-supported marriage entirely (despite being married myself) because I think marriage should be a religious/personal thing instead of an official government institution, and that we should replace it with a series of contracts that grant certain legal privileges (e.g. joint tax filing, power of attorney, etc) in an a la carte type setup (i.e. you may want to join finances w/ someone, but not give them hospital visitation rights). I think we should also allow more than two parties to enter into these agreements to cover a wide variety of unique living situations (e.g. you may want to joint file with a parent that you care for).

        I don’t know Eich’s personal political views, and I honestly don’t care, as long as they don’t interfere with his role.

        That’s a monumental task. They would have had to create their own ad network similar to Google and then solicit every site on the web to participate.

        Not necessarily. For example, they could partner w/ someone like Axate, which basically does just this.

        Only because they got caught, and they didn’t refund any of the crypto they earned in the interim.

        My understanding is that they can’t really do that, because the payments are anonymous. I could be mistaken though.

        When it comes to TOR, mistakes can be a matter of life and death. People only use TOR when they need complete anonymity.

        And if that applies to you, you should be very careful about the tools you use. Brave is a new thing and is relatively unproven. Use established, proven tools like Tor Browser.

        Not true. I like Our Lord Gaben. I like Meredith Whitaker. I like lots of CEOs.

        Eh, I don’t really like Gabe Newell, but I certainly appreciate the investment into Linux. It just so happens our interests align more than they don’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if GabeN’s personal politics were quite conservative, because conservative policies generally benefit rich people like him (the closest I can see is maybe libertarian).

        Meredith Whitaker is an absolute treasure, we don’t deserve her.

        • Ulrich@feddit.org
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          27 days ago

          Believing that same-sex marriage shouldn’t be a government-supported institution isn’t the same as believing LGBT people are “invalid” or “wrong” or whatever.

          How is it not?

          we should replace it with a series of contracts that grant certain legal privileges

          I mean, legally, that’s what marriage is.

          you may want to join finances w/ someone, but not give them hospital visitation rights

          You don’t have to do either of those things just because you’re married. Marriage just gives you the option.

          For example, they could partner w/ someone like Axate

          And what would they bring to this partnership?

          And if that applies to you, you should be very careful about the tools you use.

          You should be. But companies also should not be creating tools that propose to give you those protections when they’re not smart enough to. Just leave it to the professionals.

          I wouldn’t be surprised if GabeN’s personal politics were quite conservative

          As long as he keeps his mouth shut about them and doesn’t financially support them, he’s doing worlds better than Mr. Eich.

          • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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            27 days ago

            Believing that same-sex marriage shouldn’t be a government-supported institution isn’t the same as believing LGBT people are “invalid” or “wrong” or whatever.

            How is it not?

            It seems incredibly obvious to me. For example, here are some things I believe:

            • gambling is bad - yet I support legalization of gambling; why? Personal freedom comes first.
            • prostitution is bad - yet I support legalization of prostitution; why? Sex work will happen, so it’s better for it to be properly regulated than happen on the black market
            • drug use is bad - yet I support legalization of recreational drugs; why? Illegal drugs laced w/ fentanyl are a big problem, and most drug users would be better off w/ a regulated service.

            Personal beliefs about what government policy should be can be very different than personal beliefs about what is “good” and “bad.”

            To be clear, I support same-sex marriage because it’s on the table and my preferred alternative has almost no shot of being considered. So I support it as a harm-reduction policy, not because I actually believe the government should actually regulate marriage.

            I mean, legally, that’s what marriage is.

            Marriage is a basket of contracts (power of attorney, joint custody, financial obligations, etc), and it’s limited to two people, which is odd. The original intent seems to be to encourage procreation, but it’s hardly enforced at all, nor is that particularly important in most countries (except maybe Japan).

            We should treat marriage similarly to corporations. If you want to call your civil partnership “marriage,” more power to you. If you want to call it being BF/GF, life partners, or whatever else, more power to you. The government should only care that you meet the requirements for whatever the benefit is.

            You don’t have to do either of those things just because you’re married. Marriage just gives you the option.

            In many (most?) states, it is enforced unless you specifically opt-out (e.g. a pre-nup). Laws certainly vary by state, but generally speaking, if you’re legally married, anything you earn in the marriage is considered joint assets, even if you keep them in separate accounts. In some areas, things you bring into the marriage are also jointly owned, unless they are never interacted with.

            That’s why divorces are so messy, the couple could have agreed to keep things separate at the start, but without any evidence of that, it’s up to the courts to decide what’s fair. And pretty frequently, they’ll lean on the side of 50/50 for all assets, regardless of when it was acquired or what the understanding was.

            And what would they bring to this partnership?

            Integration into the browser product, users, and marketing.

            I’ve been wanting Firefox to do something like this so get more visibility w/ online services. I’d love to be able to load up an account balance and click “view article” and the website owner sucks a few pennies from that balance or whatever. But my only options are:

            • find a workaround w/ my ad-blocker - reader mode, archive, etc
            • make yet another account and maybe pay for a monthly subscription (why do that when I only want the one article?)
            • not read the article

            Axate provides more than that, but so few online services work w/ it. A browser could bring them a ton of visibility.

            But companies also should not be creating tools that propose to give you those protections when they’re not smart enough to. Just leave it to the professionals.

            Agreed. But like I said, users request features, bugs happen, etc. At the end of the day, the responsibility is on the user to pick the right product for their needs. Brave isn’t that product for at-risk individuals until it has been vetted by actual security experts.

            As long as he keeps his mouth shut about them and doesn’t financially support them, he’s doing worlds better than Mr. Eich.

            Eich did the first half of that, his only “sin” was that someone found out about his donation. That’s it. My understanding is that nobody was aware of it until someone dug into the donation records.

            • Ulrich@feddit.org
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              27 days ago

              gambling is bad - yet I support legalization

              Got it, so being gay isn’t “wrong” or “invalid”, it’s just “bad”?

              it is enforced unless you specifically opt-out (e.g. a pre-nup)

              Yes, that’s what I was referring to. You might call it a “contract”.

              Integration into the browser product, users, and marketing.

              They don’t need Brave for that. They need the website owners. If you’re talking about injecting Axate ads where Google and other ads already are, then we’re back to square 1 where you’re ripping off content creators from their revenue for their content.

              I’d love to be able to load up an account balance and click “view article” and the website owner sucks a few pennies from that balance or whatever.

              The problem with doing that with fiat is that there are transfer fees. You’d essential be paying a $3 to transfer 5 cents. That’s why everyone uses crypto for this.

              But like I said, users request features

              Users can request features all day, developers are the ones who have to implement them.

              bugs happen

              It’s a completely unnecessary bug from someone trying to replace a perfectly safe and secure tool with their own and build value for themselves. This isn’t just any bug. Like I said, people’s lives can hang in the balance in a very real way. They need to get it right or just stay the fuck away.

              the responsibility is on the user to pick the right product for their needs

              Bullshit. Both are responsible.

              Brave isn’t that product for at-risk individuals until it has been vetted by actual security experts.

              Then they shouldn’t have launched it.

              Eich did the first half of that

              Not good enough.

              • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                27 days ago

                Got it, so being gay isn’t “wrong” or “invalid”, it’s just “bad”?

                I didn’t say that.

                My point here is that personal views can differ from political policy views.

                Yes, that’s what I was referring to. You might call it a “contract”.

                The issue is that it’s opt-out. Instead of that, people should opt-in only to the parts they want.

                If you’re talking about injecting Axate ads where Google and other ads already are

                No, I’m talking about creating a protocol where browser clients can inform website owners that the customer is using this separate method of payment. It could happen separate from the browser (e.g. as an extension), but the browser gives it a lot more visibility.

                The UX here would be pretty simple: if the user has enabled this feature, websites would prompt users for payment or to show ads.

                Browsers win because they get a revenue stream, Axate wins by having more customers, and websites win because they’re getting paid instead of customers blocking ads.

                The problem with doing that with fiat is that there are transfer fees. You’d essential be paying a $3 to transfer 5 cents. That’s why everyone uses crypto for this.

                That’s why you batch up transfers. General flow:

                1. users load up a balance (say, $20)
                2. service (e.g. Axate) tracks which payments have been made and bulk pays website owners monthly or whatever

                Boom, total number of transfers are pretty low, no need for cryptocurrencies.

                Both are responsible.

                Sure, but the browser vendor has very little at stake, whereas the user has everything at stake. At the end of the day, it’s on the user.

                Not good enough.

                You’re welcome to your opinion. I personally don’t have an issue with how people spend their money, I only have an issue with how they treat their employees and choices they make about their product.

                • Ulrich@feddit.org
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                  27 days ago

                  My point here is that personal views can differ from political policy views.

                  That makes absolutely no sense. You would advocate for and even donate to political reform for something you don’t personally believe in?

                  At the end of the day, it’s on the user.

                  No, it isn’t.

                  I personally don’t have an issue with how people spend their money

                  Nothing says more about who a person is than their political donations.

                  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                    27 days ago

                    You would advocate for and even donate to political reform for something you don’t personally believe in?

                    Yes. I believe in personal freedom, so I’ll support the freedom to do things that I believe are harmful like drug use, gambling, or prostitution. You doing those things doesn’t impact me or anyone else so it should 100% be your right to do it. In short, I believe principles should carry the day.

                    I may not agree with you doing something I believe to be bad, but I’ll defend your right to do it.

                    In the same vein, I believe governments should be as small as possible, and no smaller. The role of government is to protect me from you, and vice versa. It’s not to ensure I’m making good choices, in fact it shouldn’t be in the business of deciding what’s “good” or “bad,” it should merely enforce laws that protect people from eachother.

                    Does the government deciding which marriages are valid protect me from you? Not really, all it does is determine who can take advantage of certain benefits. That sounds exclusionary with no particular purpose, so the government shouldn’t decide that.

                    So I really can’t speak to why Eich donated to the prop 8 fund (or whatever it was). Was it because he hates gay people? Or because he thinks same sex marriage goes counter to the reason marriage exists as a government institution? Or something else? I don’t know, nor do I really care, provided it doesn’t get in the way of doing his job.

    • endeavor@sopuli.xyz
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      27 days ago

      Using software made by people who are politically aligned to sell out your country to russia is stupid stupid stupid and makes you an idiot, idiot, idiot.

      Its not just politics when the politics are treason and electing a kgb asset. In a normal country and time it wouldn’t be a big thing wether your browser maintainer wants feee public transit or not but in current time right wing means you literally voted to destroy the entire us in order to weaken nato for the russian invasion.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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        27 days ago

        It sounds like you need to step away from social media and touch some grass.

        But let’s say you’re right, pretty much every big company is sucking up to Trump, and you’d be hard pressed to find something in your shopping cart that doesn’t benefit someone that supports him. That’s an untenable position.

        The better approach, IMO, is to avoid products from companies that mistreat their employees. That’s why I avoid Walmart, Amazon, and a few others, because that sends a clearer message and funnels my money to a better cause.

        Avoiding Brave is just virtue signaling, it doesn’t actually accomplish anything. If Brave goes under, Eich will still be conservative and probably still donate to causes you don’t like, but we’ll have one less competitor to Google’s absolute hegemony over the web browser market.

        Use Brave if it solves your problems, don’t if it doesn’t. Don’t base that decision on the personal views of the person who happens to be in charge.

        • ubergeek@lemmy.today
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          27 days ago

          but we’ll have one less competitor to Google’s absolute hegemony over the web browser market.

          Brave isn’t a competitor to Google, it’s an enabler. It uses the same engine, which is all Google cares about: Their engine, their internet.

          • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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            27 days ago

            It absolutely is a competitor. Yes, it uses the same engine, but it blocks their ads. And at the end of the day, serving ads is what Google wants to do.

            But again, Firefox (and forks) is my main browser, and it’s what I recommend to everyone. But Brave is on my list of acceptable Chromium browsers, assuming you need a Chromium browser (I do for web dev at my day job).

            • ubergeek@lemmy.today
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              27 days ago

              Yes, it uses the same engine, but it blocks their ads.

              Which means nothing, when Google can, and is, pushing technology to freely unleash their ad network on all web pages, as a function of the engine itself.

              No, it’s not a competitor. Excepting in their ad markets, and frankly, it’s not a competitor, it’s a statistical blip.

              • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                26 days ago

                as a function of the engine itself.

                AFAIK, there’s nothing in Blink (the rendering engine), V8 (the JavaScript run engine), or any other low level pieces of the browser that does this. What they’re doing is hamstringing extensions and building in a layer of tracking into the browser on top of the engine. A fork can absolutely keep the engine bits and remove the tracking bits.

                The problem with Chrome’s hegemony over the rendering engine has nothing to do with their ad network, but with their ability to steer people to use their products instead of competitors’ (e.g. “Google Docs is faster on Chrome, switch today!” just because they introduced a chrome-only spec extension).

                Brave absolutely is a competitor. They block Google’s ads, have their own search engine (and are building their own index), and provide a privacy friendly alternative to Chrome without any compatibility issues. That’s why it’s my backup to Firefox (and forks), sometimes things don’t work properly on Gecko and I want a privacy-friendly alternative to chrome. That used to be Chromium w/ uBlock Origin, but with that extension taken from the chrome web store, I reach for Brave, which has it built in.

                And yeah, it doesn’t have a ton of users. That doesn’t mean they’re not a competitor though.