The reason cited by the mods is misinformation. Not supporting violence, or any other reason. Saying that Luigi isn’t the shooter is considered misinformation and trolling.
In America, the law is innocent until proven guilty. But on lemmy.world, the rule is guilty until proven innocent, and anyone saying the accused is innocent is a troll.
Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
I don’t think that flies with rape allegations and such. Many other things too I feel
Some people in this thread are probably going to ask why Luigi is innocent. It’s a valid question, so let’s answer it here: The weapon was a 3D printed disposable gun. They’re meant to be thrown away as soon as they’re used. The shooter did dispose of a bag full of monopoly money, but the police say the gun wasn’t disposed of. That doesn’t make any sense. The shooter wouldn’t carry the gun across state lines and then hang out in McDonald’s with the murder weapon and a manifesto. Luigi says the evidence was planted, and his story makes more sense than the feds’. Maybe the feds are telling the truth, but when it comes to “reasonable doubt”, there is some very reasonable doubt that Luigi did it.
EDIT: mods removed another comment:
have you considered that luigi is just a normal person with the gall and had problems in his plan? i think it’s reasonable to keep a manifesto in hopes of its publishing
when it comes to “reasonable doubt”, there is some very reasonable doubt that Luigi did it.
or maybe that was the goal
either way, you should not be claiming this as if it were true. it’s only a possibility right now
What do you think reasonable doubt means?
it’s a lower standard than “it’s a fact that he did not do it”
Also he may not have planned on living. Everyone is questioning why he didn’t Jason Bourne his way into obscurity but he may just have hit the end of his plan, sat down, and got a sprite
Any reputable source about this?
Attorney Thomas Dickey tells KDKA Radio’s Marty Griffin, “Under the law, he is 100 percent presumed innocent and that’s the way it is.” Dickey says that “if and when (Mangione) is charged with any offense, his plea will be not guilty.” The attorney says, especially when it’s a high-profile case, the public needs to remember everyone is presumed innocent until a conviction.
Dickey was also asked about the alleged manifesto that was allegedly written by Mangione. “Well, first of all, I haven’t seen that . . . there’s a thing called the rule of completeness. And what that is . . . evidence that is inadmissible for a lot of is not only unreliable, but it’s not allowed to come in because the law says so. And most of that is constitutionally based.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgm987p8xz3o
“I don’t even know if this is him,” his lawyer, Mr Dickey, said in a recent interview with US media outlet NewsNation, referring to images of Mr Thompson’s killer.
https://www.themirror.com/news/us-news/breaking-luigi-magiones-attorney-says-852317
Dickey added that he “hasn’t seen any evidence [Mangione] is the shooter,” adding: “I have not seen one scintilla, one speck, one drop of any evidence yet. So, it’s what I decided, I think, was in our best interest to do today.”
Ghost gun does not mean 3D printed. It’s a very frustrating new connotation, as someone who would very much like people to stop assuming 3D printing people all print out guns or whatever.
Ghost gun means it isn’t traceable in the same way that non-ghost guns are, be it because the serial has been filed off or never existed or what have you.
Good point.
“As of right now the information we’re getting from Altoona is that the gun appears to be a ghost gun, may have been made on a 3D printer, with the capability of firing a 9mm round,” NYPD Chief of Detectives Joseph Kenny said Monday. “Obviously, that will come out during our ballistics testing.”
According to the Pennsylvania criminal complaint filed after Mangione’s arrest, officers found a black 3D-printed pistol and a black 3D-printed silencer in a search of his backpack. CBS News obtained the photo below showing the weapon police say was found.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ghost-guns-what-to-know/
Drag isn’t sure what to believe, whether the gun was 3D printed or not. The report says yes but the chief says maybe.
I’ll be happy to change my tune when the trial sets out the facts, these facts at least aren’t overly-controversial so I have no reason to distrust them when the come out in court. Mostly just a decade-long hobbyist watching regulations come out of NY already (background check for a fancy automatic hot glue gun, wow that sure is saving kids good job) that set them against 3D printer ownership in general and becoming frustrated with the connotation and how it taints perceptions of my fun cool hobby. I wouldn’t be surprised if the chief is just saying buzzwords that play well to the media based off of misunderstood reporting by his subordinates that then gets spun into “he totally 3D printed 50 guns” or whatever.
His lawyer, bruh!
Swears that this is the most injusticy injustice that our courts have ever seen.
You know, if they weren’t stretching the fuck out of the term misinformation, it would be less of problem.
Just outright say “we’re banning you because we don’t like that.” It’s still a douche move, but at least it’s honest.
Having an opinion is not misinformation even when the opinion is outright, provably wrong. It might be stupid, it might be off topic depending on where the opinion is expressed, but it is most definitely not misinformation.
If they’re going to treat opinions like they’re being presented as facts, then they damn well need to make it clear what opinions aren’t welcome instead of bullshit like this.
Or, at least make it clear that opinions need to be presented etc the disclaimer it’s an opinion. Or, ask for clarification as to whether it’s an opinion, or statement of some kind of principle. Trying to shoehorn it into misinformation is stupidity at best, and outright abuse at the other end.
This is about suppression of that discussion…
Aka censorship
News mods have been supressing public sentiment on both dead ceo and Luigi since the start.
Veteran observers know what’s up but every other day we have a new thread about… Many other people just move on.
Why would news mods always behave like this on sensentive topics like dead parasites and Israeli genocide in Gaza?
so according to you Luigi didn’t shoot the CEO, and whats with the fictional character of Muad’dib?
also later you talked about how Luigi apparantly was framed by the Cops?
So two measures of misinformation are at work here.
besides:
Rules (of fediverselore@lemmy.ca)
- Any drama must be posted as an observer, you cannot post drama that you are involved with.
Luigi didn’t shoot the CEO
As of this point, that statement is considered “alleged” since it has not been proven in a court of law and is central to the defense
framed by the cops?
Again, alleged this time in reverse as there has not been enough evidence to prove it.
In both cases though, all items are speculation and have not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But it seems like people are jumping to conclusions that he’s guilty.
Alright, any recommendation for another US News community?
It feels like the topic comes up every few days. The only one I know is !usa@midwest.social, but
- https://lemmy.cafe/post/10511187, including banning people for reporting actual calls to actual violence
- https://lemmy.world/post/18414833, describing a power tripping admin incident in that exact usa@midwest.social community
!AskUSA@discuss.online is also an option, but make sure to read the rules in the sidebar.
They banned me for 6 months for being a “rape apologist”, which I honestly don’t even know what they were referencing, especially since I’m very outspoken about rape & SA, just like murder & terrorism - the stuff that I usually get downvotes & bans for. lol
Really wish modlogs were more transparent.
Lemmy.world is just the Reddit comm of Lemmy. If you left Reddit for their practices, you don’t want to be on lemmy.world.
The only grounds they have is that the post is stated as a known fact. Would they have banned the same statement in the form of an opinion (“I think…”)? You say in your post here that there is reasonable doubt, and I agree there are some questions, but that’s still a far cry from definite either way.
Oooh boy, are we banning misinformation now?! This should be fun.
Misinformation = information that hurts owner class and or israel
Clown fucking modding. Say good thing about my handlers or else!
At least we got mod log to show expose the pattenr of behaviour.
Not a good sign. The whole thing about moving from reddit to the fediverse was escaping corporate control. Not even sure why we all jumped on LW. Who owns it?
What prevents you to switch to another instances such as https://discuss.online/ (US-based) or https://sopuli.xyz/ (EU-based)?
Yup. News is the only instance I’ve blocked cause of that kind of nonsense. Luckily we got choices and can easily leave poorly-run communities without leaving the whole 'verse.
Upholding laws does not make you corpo controlled.
And what law is being broken by presuming someone is innocent until they are proven guilty?
They didn’t presume, they stated it as a fact. As he’s in court, his innocence is obviously being questioned and consequently cannot be ruled out anymore. And that aside, the evidence against him is more than just crushing.
Thankfully, that’s not actually how criminal justice works in the US, and it would be really fucked up if it was illegal to say that a defendant is innocent of the charges.
A reminder that your original post was that you thought it was necessary to remove posts saying Luigi is innocent in order to follow the law. It’s a good thing that’s not actually true, because it would be incredibly dystopian if it was illegal to even say you think that a defendant is innocent.
The law part was about their complaint about glorifying violence (see some of his past stuff he complained about, though I think the last one I checked he deleted).
Even if he’s in court he’s still innocent, until (or even after) the court pronounces themselves. Courts don’t somehow magically generate a quantum state of truthfulness, they only declare legal terms.
Which law would that be? I wanted it cited with the references so that we can check your bullshit.
Upholding laws
Is this what the mods are doing here?
Most people jumped on it because it’s the biggest and they, missed the point.
ruud owns it (and Mastadon.world. He’s also not American.
I am not sure if this Lemmy world issue or new and politics issue specifically
Luigi discussions happen in meme subs no problem or at least I haven’t see issues.
But politics or news, you can’t have an open discussion about any of it and israeli genocide
In America
But lemmy.world isn’t hosted in the US. It is a European server with different rules.
A person is considered innocent until proven guilty. This is stated in Article 14 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), of which both the Netherlands and the United States (U.S.) are state party. This presumption of innocence is incorporated in the Dutch as well as the U.S. legal system
http://arno.uvt.nl/show.cgi?fid=149198
lemmy.world is hosted in the Netherlands.
Thanks for providing the text, it seemed weird to me that presumption of innocence wouldn’t be applied in the NL as well
As usual, !AskUSA@discuss.online for US citizens willing to make a US-focused community grow.
But lemmy.world isn’t hosted in the US. It is a European server with different rules.
I am far from being a lawyer, but isn’t “innocent until proven guilty” a principle applied here, in Europe, as well?
I ditched .world very early on as it was clear that a lot of the bullshit from Reddit was making itself at home in .world. I picked .ml because it is the main dev instance. Yes, I know that it has a reputation for being tankie heaven or Chinese fetishist or lord knows what else, but to date I have never been bothered or harassed by any mod or admin even though I am very far from the stereotypical .ml political spectrum.
There are many other instances. Look for one you are happy with.
I’m open to the idea that we may have been assuming things all along without realizing how they amount to assumptions, but didn’t Luigi himself admit to it, full with notes that have a verified age? Again, technically possible to be faked, but it would amount to him calling dibs if it wasn’t.
The feds claim that they found a manifesto by Luigi which says he did it. Luigi’s lawyer says he hasn’t seen the manifesto and he has doubts about whether it will be admissible as evidence, but that either way Luigi will plead Not Guilty.
I will say I do think it was peculiar they so easily found a culprit based on camera footage and the reports of someone at McDonald’s. Makes me wonder how many other part-Scot-part-indigenous women look like me should I do something like burn down the temple of Artemis a second time.
You don’t even need to be the same ethnicity. Luigi is Italian, but there’s nothing in the photos that says Italian. Just generic looking white guy. Kinda looks like Paul from the new Dune movies. And the photos are of a guy with two separate eyebrows, while Luigi has a monobrow.
Admit what?
To carrying out the shooting.
Sauce plz!
That’s a fake news article, that’s not original source.
Did luigi admit on record to killing the parasite?
Parasite? Are we talking about the same thing? The event that is being discussed was someone stalking a billionaire in New York and shooting them dead.
The parasite was merely a millionaire, dear
Get your facts straight
That whole server is a bad idea.
No, not “in America,” in legal court. You are talking about the PRESUMPTION, not the fact, but the presumption of LEGAL, not actual innocence. The reality of guilt or innocence exists whether or not the legal fact has been tried and found legally guilty or legally innocent. Just because the court presumes you are innocent does not mean you are not actually guilty.
So OP should be banned for making that statement on public forum?
OP got warned about spreading misinformation, which this 100% is. It’s an open and shut case with loads of evidence against him.
You got proof?
It’s an open and shut case with loads of evidence against him.
You been told the facts, boy, accept them!
This comment should be report for misinformation tbh
In America, the law is innocent until proven guilty.
You, once again, argue in bad faith. Honestly, at this point I’m with all the other people who accuse you of being a troll.
Just because he’s not yet convicted does not mean it isn’t clear that he’s the murderer. You could say he’s innocent based on the evidence we had shortly after with the two mismatching photos, but that was kinda the cops fault for not putting any sort of context to those photos, making them look like they just released photos of two random people. Now though? He got caught basically red handed, with the weapon used in the murder still on him. It’s blindly obvious that it was him, he even admits it in his manifesto. It does not matter if he’s guilty by court, he murdered that guy, it was him, period. You’re just unnecessarily pedantic. Or who else do think shot that asshole? Did they somehow plant the weapon in his bag? Why is he not denying it? Again, you’re arguing in bad faith.
Wtf do you mean he’s not denying it? He’s pleading not guilty and claiming the police planted all of the evidence! How could he deny this any further??
I should’ve used past tense I guess. But yes, he’s making a show out of it now.
Who is making a show here?
you must comment to express opinion how we told you to speak or else gulag!
Yup, it’s obvious what the truth is, and most people here are arguing in bad faith because pretty much everyone here approves of what he did. Hell, even my rich, staunchly Republican father approves of what he did.
But since people want to be pedantic:
- He’s legally innocent, for now, since the trial is not yet over.
- He’s morally justified in the minds of the greater public.
- He’s certainly the actual killer, “guilty” or not.
