the average person doesnt know how to mount a drive on windows or even what that is or why you would want to, they just need to be able to open a browser
I need to drag this file into my browser to upload it to the website I’m visiting for whatever reason. I’m an average user that has only ever really needed a browser. My OS came with Firefox, but when I try to drag the file onto my browser window like I’ve always done, nothing happens. Is my computer broken?
No, it’s installed as a snap/flatpak that doesn’t have the “privileges” to do that, and I will never know that since I’m an average user who only needs a browser.
Your second example is a newish problem and Ubuntu specific. I had never had a problem with drag-and-drop and I migrated from Ubuntu before the snap thing.
You will always find an example of something that works “better” in one OS than other. Linux is not trying to be a windows drop-in replacement, some thing are gonna behave differently. Linux have some problems for an average user but a lot is just different UX design and others, especially hardware compatibility is because companies don’t care for it to work on Linux so the OS is always playing catch up.
A lot of “beginner friendly” distros are Ubuntu based though, so while not strictly requiring you to use snaps, it might install Firefox as a flatpak though, which doesn’t have the privileges to do drag and drop when I last used a flatpak based browser.
You can correct me if I am wrong of course, as I truly don’t know if it is still a thing or if I just installed the flatpak. I didn’t understand the limitations back then.
I wouldn’t know if this is still a thing. You are right about the integration problem of snaps/flatpak, it is specifically bad on Ubuntu because Ubuntu goes out of their way to shove snaps on you and hide the fact. Case in point Firefox, if you want a non snap version you have to jump through a lot of hoops, or at least was like this when a last installed Ubuntu for my wife laptop, it was the 22.04 I think.
In any case that is Ubuntu specific, but a shame none of the least because like you said, Ubuntu and derivatives are the more popular beginner friendly distros. but if I recall correctly some derivatives do remove snap so you don’t have to deal with it and its problems.
That’s the distro’s fault, not linux.
Same with your network drive. It’s not up to linux to provide a GUI for anything.
Also “intuitive” should not have to mean “windows-like”. It’s hard for people because they spend over a decade on a fundamentally different OS. Adding a single line to fstab isn’t harder than searching windows’ menus. It’s harder for you/others because you/they are used to it working that way.
I was not saying intuitive to mean windows like. I was using it as measurement of how easy it feels to learn on windows where most things are in just about plain English without as much of the technobabble.
Now that I’m more comfortable with Linux, the technobabble is at least understandable to the point that I can be a little more confident in how I navigate the computer and what not to do.
And you are right, of course. I am more comfortable with Windows, but that also gives me a little more insight into how Linux could be the absolute best of all worlds with a little conversation about the pain points and how they could be improved quite significantly.
It seems way too many people are the exact rude people I was talking about in the original comment. It’s a meme community. Your life is not on the line for Linux. I love it too.
I’m sorry but having a conversation, debating and disagreeing isn’t being rude. People on linux willingly made the choice to move to it, so they are usually more knowledgeable about it, and therefore know enough to have arguments.
Honestly the “linux users are elitists/rude” thing feels like just a meme at this point. In a decade of using it as a daily driver, I can probably count on one hand how many times someone was actually rude when I asked for help.
Read through the comments on this very thread to add to those counts.
It’s okay though. This always happens when people have even a hint of Linux issues. It’s hard to be enthusiastic in a hostile community that just refuses to see that issues are still issues.
clicking the browse button to select the file is a hell of a lot easier than opening the file manager, navigating your way through your files to find the one specific one, then make both windows small so you can select a file in one, and drag it over to the other.
And look, its also an example of how you turn nothing into a big, complicated, multistep imaginary issue.
We were talking about average users. It’s most definitely not an imaginary issue, unfortunately. I have seen it with my own eyes. It’s how they have always brought their stuff into the browser, therefore, it is what they’ve always done. Yes, there is a browse option, but that isn’t always going to be the most intuitive way.
I work in IT. I see average users all the time. They don’t even know drag and drop is a thing. One tool my employer is a distributor for heavily relies on drag and drop for a specific feature (adding and reordering favorites).
It’s like explaining eating soup with a spoon to a baby.
the average person doesnt know how to mount a drive on windows or even what that is or why you would want to, they just need to be able to open a browser
Very good point!
Example 2:
I need to drag this file into my browser to upload it to the website I’m visiting for whatever reason. I’m an average user that has only ever really needed a browser. My OS came with Firefox, but when I try to drag the file onto my browser window like I’ve always done, nothing happens. Is my computer broken?
No, it’s installed as a snap/flatpak that doesn’t have the “privileges” to do that, and I will never know that since I’m an average user who only needs a browser.
Your second example is a newish problem and Ubuntu specific. I had never had a problem with drag-and-drop and I migrated from Ubuntu before the snap thing.
You will always find an example of something that works “better” in one OS than other. Linux is not trying to be a windows drop-in replacement, some thing are gonna behave differently. Linux have some problems for an average user but a lot is just different UX design and others, especially hardware compatibility is because companies don’t care for it to work on Linux so the OS is always playing catch up.
A lot of “beginner friendly” distros are Ubuntu based though, so while not strictly requiring you to use snaps, it might install Firefox as a flatpak though, which doesn’t have the privileges to do drag and drop when I last used a flatpak based browser.
You can correct me if I am wrong of course, as I truly don’t know if it is still a thing or if I just installed the flatpak. I didn’t understand the limitations back then.
I wouldn’t know if this is still a thing. You are right about the integration problem of snaps/flatpak, it is specifically bad on Ubuntu because Ubuntu goes out of their way to shove snaps on you and hide the fact. Case in point Firefox, if you want a non snap version you have to jump through a lot of hoops, or at least was like this when a last installed Ubuntu for my wife laptop, it was the 22.04 I think.
In any case that is Ubuntu specific, but a shame none of the least because like you said, Ubuntu and derivatives are the more popular beginner friendly distros. but if I recall correctly some derivatives do remove snap so you don’t have to deal with it and its problems.
That’s the distro’s fault, not linux. Same with your network drive. It’s not up to linux to provide a GUI for anything.
Also “intuitive” should not have to mean “windows-like”. It’s hard for people because they spend over a decade on a fundamentally different OS. Adding a single line to fstab isn’t harder than searching windows’ menus. It’s harder for you/others because you/they are used to it working that way.
I was not saying intuitive to mean windows like. I was using it as measurement of how easy it feels to learn on windows where most things are in just about plain English without as much of the technobabble.
Now that I’m more comfortable with Linux, the technobabble is at least understandable to the point that I can be a little more confident in how I navigate the computer and what not to do.
And you are right, of course. I am more comfortable with Windows, but that also gives me a little more insight into how Linux could be the absolute best of all worlds with a little conversation about the pain points and how they could be improved quite significantly.
It seems way too many people are the exact rude people I was talking about in the original comment. It’s a meme community. Your life is not on the line for Linux. I love it too.
I’m sorry but having a conversation, debating and disagreeing isn’t being rude. People on linux willingly made the choice to move to it, so they are usually more knowledgeable about it, and therefore know enough to have arguments.
Honestly the “linux users are elitists/rude” thing feels like just a meme at this point. In a decade of using it as a daily driver, I can probably count on one hand how many times someone was actually rude when I asked for help.
Read through the comments on this very thread to add to those counts.
It’s okay though. This always happens when people have even a hint of Linux issues. It’s hard to be enthusiastic in a hostile community that just refuses to see that issues are still issues.
In a meme community for crying out loud.
This thread doesn’t have anything to do with troubleshooting Linux. It’s literally a debate.
clicking the browse button to select the file is a hell of a lot easier than opening the file manager, navigating your way through your files to find the one specific one, then make both windows small so you can select a file in one, and drag it over to the other.
And look, its also an example of how you turn nothing into a big, complicated, multistep imaginary issue.
We were talking about average users. It’s most definitely not an imaginary issue, unfortunately. I have seen it with my own eyes. It’s how they have always brought their stuff into the browser, therefore, it is what they’ve always done. Yes, there is a browse option, but that isn’t always going to be the most intuitive way.
I work in IT. I see average users all the time. They don’t even know drag and drop is a thing. One tool my employer is a distributor for heavily relies on drag and drop for a specific feature (adding and reordering favorites).
It’s like explaining eating soup with a spoon to a baby.
Such a high level idiot would fail regardless of the OS.
You cant make an idiot proof system, because humanity just produces better idiots.