Troubled robot vacuum-cleaner maker iRobot, abandoned by Amazon after regulators effectively doomed the web giant’s takeover offer, has warned investors it may not survive the next 12 months.
Hmm so this entire trick of setting up companies just to be bought by mega corps appears to be not a viable strategy if anti trust law is enforced?
Edit: apparently this company was set up before sell to mega corp craze got kicked off. I don’t think changes the thesis but this case study doesn’t support it with the strength I suggested
Hmm as if last 30 years of corpo behavior has been essentially to maintain mega corp dominance via captured regulators and legislators
We got the capitalism alright but where is the free market at, daddy?
Don’t worry, the new strategy is to string a company along with talks of a buyout, then when their cash runs out and they declare bankruptcy, to buy all the assets on fire sale.
Owners of the take over target shoulda worked harder and maybe ate less avocado toast?
fire tablet, fire phone, fire sale!
'member the HP Touchpad? I 'member…
setting up companies just to be bought by mega corps
iRobot was originally founded all the way back in 1990 and have sold quite a lot of Roomba vacuums, advancing innovation in home automation along the way. I don’t think anyone can ever say that they set up this company for a quick flip corpo pump and dump.
It was originally at up to leech government funding for “weapons research”. I guess I’m old because nobody here seems to remember that.
What’s the context for this?
iRobot started off as a defense contractor making mine clearing algorithms or some such vaporware.
Hmm an interesting pivot
Well damn… How did they run the company into the ground?
Let me guess cheap Chinese robots sold on amazon?
Thank you providing additional context.
Honestly I think they suffer a little from early-mover disadvantage.
“Cheap Chinese” and all the associations that come with that is a little reductive in this case. Roborock vacuums are not actually cheap - they are extraordinarily well-made, featureful, and a good value compared to iRobot.
Decades ago, iRobot probably spent millions in R&D just to arrive at navigation algorithms that were worse than what you can get with open-source libraries today. They also spent the marketing dollars to convince people these robots were safe and effective. They weren’t always, so there were some ups and downs in that.
Nowadays the supporting technologies are all much more advanced (and cheaper) and the market for these robots has been created already and is very robust. Companies like Roborock just have to come in and build a good product and they’ll see much faster returns than iRobot did for all those years. They can go straight to lidar, which was probably prohibitive for iRobot for many years, leading iRobot to invest heavily in other technologies which are now a generation behind.
So in addition to their decades of tech legacy. iRobot is burdened with the expectations of longtime investors who want a big cashout, just as they are getting eaten alive by all this new competition. They pinned their hopes on a big exit and are now holding the bag. It’s not surprising that this all left them in trouble.
The market is “free” to fuck you and everyone you know on the ass.
Didn’t you know that’s what “free market“ means?
I do, in fact, dislike being fucked on the ass.
I like it, myself, but not when it’s a major global multi billion dollar corporation doing it.
The operative word here is consent haha
That is always the operative word. Except for those who don’t can’t and will never accept that that word exists.
Parasite class and their legal persons sure do have a rapist culture as their MO
It’s not capitalism without exploitation.
oh its free alright. for oligarchs to do whatever the fuck they want.
You just gotta be big enough that you can buy enough people. FAANG is there (though this is Wild West politics nowadays so who the fuck knows what’s gonna happen). But when you own the people writing the laws to control you… they’re not controlling you.
(I know I didn’t contribute shit & just complain but) … isn’t it a bit weird how after all this time there arent any good open sauce diy robot kits?
Like, materials, sensors, brushes, filters, batteries, etc are all cheaply available, a basic board could literally be just cut plywood with the rest is the things mounted on top (who even needs a cover?). And ofc one could mount various weapons mod on it.
There is https://valetudo.cloud/ for a lot of existing models, it’s about the closest thing we have.
Oh fuck,
I’m gonnaI might test this.
I’ve never heard of it before, but the more I read the more I like it.Thx!
I have it on a Roborock S5 and it works great, so much more stable than the original firmware that requires an internet connection.
Certain models can be harder to root though, so read through the description and guide thoroughly first.
I have an S5 Max, its a long time I think about switching… but I dunno if its worth it
Yeah if it’s working fine now I wouldn’t bother.
“for a lot of models” is a bit of an exaggeration. Especially as Xiaomi/Dreame try to actively restrict Valetudo use.
But yes, Valetudo is a great project. I’d just wish there was a manufacturer who would openly endorse it.
I’ve wondered before how large an order would be required to entice a white label manufacturer of robot vacuums into doing a production run of units with Valetudo preinstalled.
I would absolutely buy one if someone could work out a fair business arrangement with the developer and throw the project up on kickstarter.
There are not enough smart-vacuum owners in the world that would make it more profitable to just make the hardware without hoovering up the data that comes with its use.
Popular Science had an “open source” robot lawnmower plans in the…80s? I have it somewhere. Old enough that it used deep cycle lead-acid batteries and spinning round dremel blades. No laser to cut the grass, although it did use LEDs for sensors for grass height.
Go ahead and make one then. Nobody is stopping you from being the first.
… I’m that, my best is what is stopping me :(.
I love DIY tech projects and yet I would never go through the effort to make a robot vacuum because vacuuming is already the easiest chore in the house. You kinda just stand there and go swoop swoop swoop a few times. Takes like 3 minutes to do an entire room. As opposed to listening to the robot vacuum rumble around for an hour and do a half ass job, if it even finishes without getting spooked by a shadow thinking it’s a 100ft cliff
Sounds like you don’t have a thick furred dog that sheds multiple coats throughout the year.
We got a roomba as a gift and it has saved so much effort of sweeping/vacuuming the excess of fur on the floors.
Love my husky but damn…
Yeah, people complain about roombas not giving a super deep clean… But they’re really not intended to do so. They’re meant to be a daily maintenance clean. They may not be great for when you dump an entire can of coffee grounds in your carpet… But they’re wonderful when you have a big dog with lots of fur that needs to be vacuumed every single day.
Yes, we all need to manage our lives & our shortcomings.
I like vacuum cleaning chore too, but can have periods when my brainhole just won’t register the todo.I really don’t like vacuuming, so to me it doesn’t matter how long it takes; I can set it up and then leave the house
Got a good deal on a Roomba, I have a shark with HEPA filter and all, very good vacuum. I can vacuum, then let the Roomba run, and it still finds shit. I like it, especially for pet hair. Only thing I don’t like is it’s random pattern, mine doesn’t map the room, refuse to get one with a camera.
Better to put my efforts toward automating the flipping of light switches and the raising/lowering of window shades
I mean, I don’t demand an open source washing machine or dryer either.
yes but they don’t need a cloud service, neither scanning your home to function
Ok, but that would be amazing.
Imagine the ability to actually define your own cycles.
Tho how most are built, that shouldn’t be that hard with a little arduino.
What about LEGO Mindstorms? Does that count?
Didn’t iRobot put out a DIY robot/vacuum that you could assemble how you wanted?
Yeah, but it didn’t have a vacuum. It was just a development thing.
It was an awesome rover robot for tinkering and introducing kids to technology! Wish there were more versions of hardware like that.
True, I guess my comment did sound a bit “not interesting” 😅
I think it’s a great development kit. I wish my Eufy robot vacuum had that level of tinker-ability. It’s already got googly eyes…
Their products require their app, would this effectively turn their devices useless when the servers die?
I know it supports a single button to start cleaning, but I wonder if that will work properly without being able to call home.
Might be time for people to look for alternatives.
It technically still works without the app but it loses features that increase the efficiency of the map, tells it where not to clean, scheduled cleaning, etc.
So basically anything that makes it more useful than just doing it yourself.
Everything that makes it better than a generic copy, yes
That’s why I only bought the basic model – didn’t want a cloud company to have a map of my house lying around
I assume this will brick all Roombas past the 800 series. All the scheduling, advanced mapping features etc are hosted on AWS. You’ll be able to press clean to start but that’s pretty much it… That’s unless they open up their software which they probably won’t
If it bricks my i7 room a I’ll just take it apart and make it work somehow. It will take a long time but worst case scenario it goes from a brick to a brick
Something happened when they moved to the vslam (i.e camera mapping) robots which made the software much harder to hack… you used to be able to use a serial cable to program them.
They used to encourage people to use a serial cable to program them. I remember when I got my Roomba nearly ten years ago, it came with a little pamphlet advertising their educational platform robot, which was basically a Roomba without the vacuum cleaning stuff. I think they intended it to be sort of the next step up from LEGO Mindstorm or something. But at the bottom of that pamphlet, there was a paragraph that basically said “hey you can get this educational robot, buuuut, the one you just bought has the exact same connections, firmware, and hardware 👀👀👀”
You can root a lot of the earlier ones.
The alternatives are Chinese, or vacuum your own floors… Nobody wants to do that
I’ve got a Samsung that works just fine completely offline with no app. I don’t need some app to block it from going somewhere I just put some things in the way. Takes 3 minutes to prep for it driving around.
Requires an app? As soon as Amazon bought it, mine has never again connected to an app or the internet.
It usually has a big start button on it’
Works fine without the app.
Not if you want to schedule, edit the map, customize routines, etc
It’s still usable, it just reverts to the old school Roombas. Press clean to vacuum. Press dock to return to charger.
It would be great if more smart devices had a LAN-only control mode like my 3D printer, TV and AV receiver.
I would be perfectly happy if my iRobot phone app only worked from inside my network.
Doesn’t apply to iRobot but there are lots of robot vacuums that can be flashed with an open firmware with just a USB UART cable: https://valetudo.cloud/pages/general/supported-robots.html
As for the other devices, my 3D printer, projector and AV receiver are all locally controlled.
Big +1 for Valetudo. I use it on a refurbished Roborock S7+ I got on eBay and it’s fantastic.
Make sure to read their disclaimers, they’re really not interested in expanding features, so make double sure it’s sufficient for what you want.
How was your experience rooting it?
I’ve been really wanting a Roborock for a while but I saw that changes starting on I think their S6 model made rooting it much more difficult and required a pretty extensive disassembly process.
I’m pretty comfortable with electronics teardowns but the thought of having to fully disassemble my brand new device to root it made me decide to wait a little and see how things shake out. I haven’t looked into it seriously for maybe a year or so though so I don’t know what has changed.
I rooted both of my Roborock S6.
If you can solder and have an UART USB cable, it’s not really hard to do. Technically you can flash it by just holding your UART adapter against the solder pads but soldering them on definitely makes it easier.
There’s a full video guide on how to dissassemble and root here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9PoaNtZCJRZc61c792VCr_I6jQK_IdSb
Firmware and everything else is here: https://builder.dontvacuum.me/_s6.html
Also, if you don’t have a Roborock yet, the Dreame models are significantly easier to root. Don’t even have to disassemble most of them.
At that point, I wouldn’t trust ANY device that cannot be controlled locally, either natively or at least through some hacks.
I think it’s just using MQTT, so block network access and use HomeAssistant
My cheap Conga robot came with a remote controller. It stopped connecting to its server long ago, but I can still use it. The battery is getting worse and worse, though.
Your 3d printer has a NIC?
It’s pretty common for newer 3D printers to have WiFi. Start/stop jobs, monitor cameras, or just to have a more capable UI than the built-in screen. Lots of people add this capability to older printers (or new ones with sucky interfaces) with OctoPrint.
And some brands of 3D printers have started placing those functionalities behind remote servers and paywalls
cough cough Bambu Labs cough cough
Another company squandering their patents and market advantage. Reminds me of TiVo.
I love my TiVo. I had to find someone to repair my current unit because it’s an antenna version. They don’t have/make new antenna versions.
This. I know someone who used to work there. They wouldn’t enforce the patents in China to the point where you could drop in Roomba subassemblies in competitor robots and they would still work…
I’m a bit of a diy and repair nerd for damned near anything. I have a near 20 year old roomba 530 model that still works great. Back then and for a good many years roombas were hands down the best bang for your buck. I haven’t recommended them for the past decade. They fell behind in ability and build quality. Let alone any of the privacy concerns stuff. Damned shame.
Patiently awaiting Congress to ban any Chinese robot vacuums out of national security risk
Had an old one that kinda works but is a pain. More recently, we splurged on a more modern pet version with Wi-Fi and all the bells.
It was fantastic. And 3 weeks in, couldn’t stay connected to the network even right beside the router and was doing constant very short runs before returning to the dock saying it was full.
Returned it.
Mozilla gave them an OK privacy rating. Not great, but not terrible.
You know we can’t really trust Mozilla on the privacy front anymore right?
I don’t believe that is true if you’ve followed the story.
The free market is supposed to make this happen. The problem is that we have also built a system that just generates mountains of junk and e-waste. Because our government is feckless and refuses to actually regulate, ya know, anything with a shareholder attached.
So the Roomba I bought in 2021 is gonna stop working come 2026… Guess I need an open source vacuum now too 😩
this comment makes me question, is there an open source sex toy community?
edit: there is lmao https://github.com/PITR-DEV/ukbutt-modBro … this is the best response I’ve ever gotten on Lemmy 🤣🤣🤣 thank you stranger, both fascinating and hilarious
Here you go https://valetudo.cloud/
Haha. Ofc with these prices and features compared to some other good Chinese and other brands roomba is doomed. Like check vacuum wars on YT. Middle model roombas are on par with your typical Chinese brand robots but price is double. Basically, you pay for a brand 🤷.
I will check them out later! I’ve been wanting a robot vacuum for a while now but I also am wary of Chinese bullshit.
I want a really good one that doesn’t connect to the internet in any way. 👍🏻 Even if that kills some of its smart features.
Chinese stuff has largely reached the same tipping point Japanese/Korean stuff reached in the 80s, where the previous couple decades it was cheap crap and “all of a sudden” it’s on par or better than domestic consumer tech.
The cheap junk is still cheap junk of course but if you look at the middle tier or better they can be very good. DJI is a prime example, there aren’t a lot of alternative drones if you want it to ‘just work’ and work well with decent support. You can also get a drone on Ali-express/TEMU for $20 but it’s going to be cheap crap, but DJI drones you can buy in BestBuy and the bigger/more professional ones get used on movie sets.
I have an older model roomba, the 630 that has no internet connection whatsoever.
Yeah, that mindset was steep in a little bit of truth and a little bit of racism. China couldn’t stay behind the United States for eternity, that’s not how the flow of time works and they’re making all of our stuff so they know how to make it better.
Why are the Chinese companies not collapsing too? What’s different about irobot that they can’t compete?
Is that a serious question? If it was, then Labor costs is the short answer. The longer answer would also include unmatched economies of scale at every step in the supply chain leading up to the final manufactured product as well. So their cheap labor also gets them cheap components.
Hmm, can irobot not also manufacture their products in China?
Pretty much inevitable. Nowadays there are so many robot vacuum cleaners from different brands, and everyone has more or less figured out the tech so they all work pretty well. (I have a Roborock, and have nothing to say about it other than it keeps the floors clean and doesn’t cause me any grief.) There’s no moat, so consumer market success is purely a matter of manufacturing and cost efficiency, and iRobot obviously would have a huge upfill fight against Samsung, Xiaomi, and a thousand other light consumer goods makers.
I bought a roborock Q Revo the other week, and it works great at vacuuming and mopping.
I changed its spoken language to Chinese though, to remind me who I’m living with.
I thought this was a funny gag, until I changed my router and wifi, and then had to update the robots wifi connection with all the voice prompts in chinese
i bought a roomba 2 years ago. It wasnt the cheapest, but it was the only company that isnt some cheap, chinese knockoff brand. American designed and operated still had some advantages for me at the time.
This was before USA plunged into facism though. Now i’m not sure what i would buy.
Their products are like 5 years behind their competitors. It’s inevitable.
I’m glad my old, non-smart one still works fine. It slams into things and says, “Roomba needs help” or something when it eats a sock or wire I missed. But at least it will outlast the company’s servers.
So my vacuum will likely not work in 12 months. Niiiice.
Will certainly be a bummer if they do go under, I really appreciated their serviceability. Have several in the immediate family that have been going for over 7 years at this point though all kinds of calamities. Each time can I just pop out all the components clean/replace as necessary and get it back in service, good as new.
Agree. While I think there’s been little effort to evolve their products at the same pace as their competitors, I have very much appreciated their servicability.
If it doesn’t work, hit it with a hammer.
If it then breaks, it needed replacing anyway.
Once they are cut off from the parent company they will go rogue and attack in the night…
When I got my first robot vacuum I was too impatient to wait for the battery to fully charge before trying it out so when I started it up it was only able to clean a small area before it had to go back to charge. Very exciting though!
Anyway I went to bed not realizing that once it was fully charged it would resume cleaning. So approximately 1am the vacuum wakes back up and starts cleaning. In my sleep-addled delirious state I had absolutely no idea what the fuck was going on. Suddenly it sounded like there was a jet engine in my room and I couldn’t even tell where it was coming from until I jumped out of bed and there were red lights coming at me.
Saw my life flash before my eyes. Little fucker might as well have been a terminator.
And clean up the crime scene…
