Summary
Wisconsin resident Bradley Bartell voted for Trump’s promise to crack down on “criminal illegal immigrants,” but now his Peruvian wife Camila Muñoz has been detained by ICE.
Muñoz, from Peru, overstayed her visa but had applied for legal residency. On their way home from a honeymoon, immigration agents detained her at a Puerto Rico airport.
Despite no criminal record, she remains in a Louisiana detention center. Her case reflects ICE’s broadened enforcement that now includes documented immigrants.
Bartell, once supportive of stricter immigration policies, now questions the impact on families like his own.
You shouldn’t have to have it happen to you before you realize the impact it has on others, but that’s what we’re up against.
Empathy takes a little thought and many people just can’t think.
I once saw it described on Lemmy that Conservatives have sympathy but no empathy.
I saw a Ted talk that talked about inability to entertain the hypothetical. Some people are simply unable to entertain the hypothetical "what if my wife is deported’, they can only recognize it when it becomes "my wife is being deported ".
I’ve heard that some people have difficulty with hypotheticals in general. not just on political issues, like it’s a surprisingly common cognitive issue.
Stimulating watch!
I think both (edit: lack of) Empathy and this inability are required.
Inability to entertain the hypothetical is a failure in the pure logic reasoning side, quite independent of Empathy.
So, even the purest of sociopaths (hence, no Empathy whatsoever) can reason that “this can turn around and bit me” and thus not do certain things against others purelly for the selfish reason of not wanting to risk it coming around and bitting them.
Meanwhile those with Empathy will partly feel the emotions of others when observing them, and also when imagining “how does/will this make them feel”. They don’t tend to do things that hurt others because they themselves end up feeling some of the pain via their own Empathy.
So people with high Empathy won’t even want to do things to hurt others because it feels bad, those with low or no Empathy but an ability to entertain the hypothetical won’t support certain kinds of things that will hurt large groups of “others” purelly because of the higher risk that they themselves might directly or indirectly end up worse off from it and only the ones combining low Empathy and that inability to entertain the hypothetical (or just being too stupid to even begin to understand the risks of those things) will actual support such broad attacks on “others”.
Link, please?
And there’s this whole war on empathy thing going on for a while.
From the article I don’t get a sense he is at all questioning his vote. He feels his case is special and the government messed up. For him. She’s vetted, so it’s ok. The others deserve what they are getting.
Yep. Brackets by me:
[Him and his wife] have been thinking a lot about [his] vote for Trump.
“I knew they were cracking down,” he said. “I guess I didn’t know how it was going down.”
He imagined the administration would target people who snuck over the border and weren’t vetted
But his wife, “they know who she is and where she came from,” he said. “They need to get the vetting done and not keep these people locked up. It doesn’t make any sense.”
The dumbfuck doesn’t show any contrition at all, he just says oops I didn’t know. When this topic came up in the interview, he didn’t admit any regret or that he put himself (and his wife) in this position - he just says that the government is wrong to do this to him/his wife, and that they should go after other illegals instead. What a piece of shit.
He’s probably just playing CoD while his wife shivers in a cell. His main grievance is that regular sandwiches aren’t arriving.
I bet he’s playing cello suite no.1 in G major
lol. Where is this from?
An article from just after Jan 6th happened. My phone says I saved it on Jan 8th, 2021, so it was literally a day or two after.
My sister in law’s family are all El Salvadorian refugees in Houston. Everyone under 50 are citizens now, but las abuelitas are not. They were all massive Trump supporters hoping that he will kick out “all the illegals” but are convinced that their grandparents wont be deported, and that they might be able to bring in more family.
Juxtapose that to my family, where my English mom was naturalized 20 years ago after coming to the US on a green card. My family have always been pro-immigrarion since we would never dream of denying someone the same opportunity that we were given. We are all ao flabbergasted by it, but they all love Bukele as well, so i guess it shouldn’t be a surprise.
Empathy is a marker of intelligence. I strongly doubt the education of conservatives. Hence the need for first-hand experience
Honestly I think this is part of why conservatives like homeschooling so much; being in a close classroom environment teaches most people empathy as they quickly realize they are not the center of the teacher or anyone else’s universe.
Conservatives want to deprive us the lesson of empathy.
This is the problem endemic with the GOP voter mindset as a whole. They lack any shred of compassion and only care about themselves. The point of a society is shared burden. If you don’t want to love your neighbor, go live in the woods
Maybe a controversial opinion but I don’t think anyone belongs in an ICE detention centre regardless of who their spouse voted for. I don’t think this is funny.
Haven’t you heard? Empathy is a sin and the weakness of Western civilization. It’s what a true conservative would want.
Empathy and goodwill aren’t infinite, like any resource they can be depleted. I really cannot muster enough fucks to give about someone who voted for that turd a second time. Feel sorry for his wife, though.
Yeah, I agree, it’s not funny, it’s a fucking nightmare, and I hate that so many people are dumb enough to believe the restrained version of Trump the media sells and not the words coming out of Trump’s idiot mouth.
As someone who doesn’t live in tge USA, I don’t feel empathy for everyone who voted for Trump or didn’t vote at all because eQuAl SiDeS bAd. Project 2025 and deportation plans were known before the elections so you brought this down on yourself. It really sucks for everyone else though, within USA and its (former) allied countries.
Who am I to prevent a fash from locking up a fash?
I reckon, “first they came” would be applicable here, however the realist in me says they would continue to go and lock up non fascists
First they came for the fascists, and I didn’t care, because it’s what the fascist wanted, and it helps to thin their numbers?
Yes, very true, unfortunately fighting to ensure no one suffers from fascists, also benefits fascists from being affected.
What evidence do you have that this lady is fascist?
When 9 people sit down to eat dinner with 1 nazi, you are 10 nazis eating dinner.
She fucking married him. Did she not know how much he loved the notion of her being deported? Or did she just think only “the others” would be deported?
I hate how many people are this fucking stupid.
hateful*
*hateful and stupid
“They’re hurting the wrong people!!”
This reads like the post Brexit articles. What do people expect to happen when they vote for something?
I didn’t think leopards would eat my face
“I’m a good person and this was only supposed to happen to bad people” - every Far-Right muppet when it turns out that the in-group is a lot smaller than they thought and they ain’t in it.
“And then they came for the libs joking about leopards, but there was no one left to speak up…”
People got too used to being able to cosplay as oppressed victims of the state despite decades of minor policy changes between Democrat or Republican administrations.
All Americans got to enjoy conjuring any abstract worldview they wanted with the freedom of knowing they can say what they want whenever they want, never feel repression and just go home and watch tv. Maga got to pretend they were actively oppressed by the state which let’s them justify supporting real state oppression towards people they don’t like.
I imagine a lot of maga dorks voted for this, expected performative moves but a mostly stable continuity of the American center. I don’t know if they’ll ever admit it but I bet they are going to regret this president keeping his promises when they are stripped of all of their rights and their safety nets. The time for hyperbolics and hysterics are over, fascism is here, they are going to get ground down with the rest.
I’d feel sorry for the guy but that would be both insincere and incorrect. After all, he got exactly what he voted for.
EDIT: Sorry this wasn’t meant to be a novel. If I had more time it would have been shorter.
I understand not feeling bad for THE GUY. But you should absolutely feel bad for his wife. Moral values should not be conditional. I could have an undocumented immigrant cus me out and say “TRUMP IS AWESOME” and I’d still not want that guy to be deported for no reason. I know its a slightly satisfying “you got what was coming to you”. But being leftist in any sense means staying true to your convictions and not falling for this type of reactionary response no matter how satisfying it is.
I’ve used this as an example before.
I want even KKK members to get free healthcare in the US. Because as much as I hate KKK members my leftist principles tell me that right wing reactionary ideas thrive in poor material conditions. Conditions on these fundamental leftist principles will not stand. The “got what was coming to them” response is absolutely a reactionary idea. These are conditions of revenge and not conditions of justice. They have no place in left wing principles.
You can absolutely enjoy the slight sense of irony and satisfaction from this snippet. But, at the end of the day, you’re not saying anything different then “let’s deport these immigrants because X” just like the right is. Its the same as saying “these brown people deserve to be treated badly because they didn’t vote for Harris”. It’s insane reactionary ideas masking itself as leftism.
It’s more like a guilty pleasure when you have no control over the situation anymore to see the people who chose to fuck it up suffer the most consequences. When given the chance, I would never let something like this happen, but since it happened outside of my control I think it’s fair to bask in the irony
Sure. But maybe in your head for a minute. Saying your position is “haha that stupid immigrant and her husband got what was coming to them” is pretty gross imo.
But you should absolutely feel bad for his wife.
His wife likely was “One of the good ones, not the dirty Mexicanos that Trump is going to clean out of this country!!!”
When you have 9 people eating dinner with a nazi, you have 10 nazis eating dinner.
You have every right (see what I did there?) to feel that way, but feeling some degree of comfort and karma that bad people also get bad things happen to them instead of bad things just being limited to the victims of capitalism, is just a simple sensorial reaction to the reality of the world and not in any way some sort of “anti-left” idea. In fact, wishing the best wishes to the boot that’s stomping on you is probably the worst things to do, since it teaches conformity in the structure of the class system. To fight the imbalance of power you have to want to fight, and historically speaking spite is among the best motivators there ever is.
Also lol, good work trying to equate me with those right-wing KKK nutjobs! Yeah! Because there is literally no difference between wishful thinking, and actually doing material damage to someone because of your Trump dogma! Right?
Geez, what tiktok does to media literacy these days…
But you do you. I’ll continue to cry a crocodile tear for the guy.
(Yes, the wife deserves a real tear, but that does not mean I can’t cry a fake one for free)
If you think the “boot” is a Trump voter then you missed the point entirely. I don’t know what else to say. And simplifying them into “bad people” like the world is a comic book movie is anti left and anti materialist thought.
I also didn’t equate you with the KKK. I used what you would call an analogy to explain my perspective. An analogy in which I wasn’t even comparing you with the KKK. In that analogy you would have been someone that laughed as a KKK member was denied healthcare.
If you couldn’t even get that clear point of my comment then you should probably go back and read it with a fraction of charity. Because you kind of just responded with nonsense and gave no thought into the point I was actually making. One that wasn’t even very critical of you. I admitted myself that that “karma” is satisfying. But there is a difference between our thoughts and our material actions. That where dialects is usedul in understanding what is reactionary thought is and where it leads to.
After all, he got exactly what he voted for.
This is why it’s best not to vote.
He would have gotten the same by not voting. By not voting you are supporting the candidates that least want you to vote. Those who are the most harmful to you.
He could have gotten something different by voting for someone who was not against him.
Good. It sucks for her, but Trump voters don’t deserve to have happy lives.
What about biden voters? Lib genocide gets a pass?
Friend you’re on the wrong instance. .ml has a spot open for you, all you have to do is cry about “the libs” like a Trumper and you’re in.
Okay I’m jumping on this sword… When Israel attacked Palestinians, I was like yeah baby! 9-11? Now kiss my entire…but then we heard the US was helping and finally… Innocent people are being followed by drone and bombed…oh man, kiss my entire… WTF is the US doing? No, no! Not in our name! Why doesn’t Joe Bidden stop it? Totally wrong side of history. The only saving grace is that the world knows how powerful we are…but also we’re just dumb fucks and now with trump we’re also assholes. We’re both the most powerful nation in the world, but just too stupid to figure out who to hit.
As an example, Ukraine. Why didn’t we go and bomb Ukraine??? Under trump that’s a valid question. A sane person might wonder instead, where’s putin now and how can we deliver as many bombs as possible directly to him for him to keep and personally observed their functionality POV. Even now, we could do this. Just find the guy and drop some good stuff on him. A grand piano, an ACME anvil, anything, rocks. But ger him to “understand” our point of view about the things he is doing.
Of course he doesn’t, but we are talking about the Here and Now.
Aren’t these people guys with guns who fantasize about fighting tyranny? Well this is your fucking chance to shine, sweetheart!
Well, can’t say trump isn’t keeping my the promises he made when on campaign
Imagine being an immigrate and marrying a Trump supporter. Should we feel sorry for her? Because I feel no sympathy for him.
Imagine being an immigrate and marrying a Trump supporter.
Imagine being an immigrant and marrying a Trump. FIFY
Not even blue steel could help you then.
People usually believe that politics is something that comes after personal relationships.
Which is a dumb belief.
“Love conquers all” lol no, you don’t live in a fucking Disney movie.
Certain political beliefs can and will do harm. Feelings will not protect you from harm. Choose your partner wisely.
Good. I hope he’s fucking devastated. I hope his entire world is fucking crumbling. Everyone with three working braincells or more knew exactly what would happen if we let the christonationalist fascists have total control of the government, and pieces of subhuman trash like him willingly made it happen.
It’s almost as if being a racist douchebag is bad for everyone…
Muñoz, from Peru, overstayed her visa but had applied for legal residency.
I have to assume this guy was aware of this. So if you vote to have “illegals” deported, how is this not exactly what you voted for?
They really don’t like having to think about things do they?
I wonder if he told at all her he votes for people that want her gone.
The overwhelming majority of ‘illegal’ residents are visa overstays.
Like Melania Trump! She overstayed her tourism visa, while also working while on a tourism visa.
I pity Madam but I have little sympathy for Sir.
I have little sympathy for Madame. She travelled
out of the countryto Puerto Rico for her honeymoon, knowing she overstayed on her visa. Given what had happened in the weeks leading up to them leaving the US last week, she really should have not gotten on that plane.The reason I sympathize with Madam is the same reason I sympathize with most migrants: they’re not doing it to hurt the country they migrate to, they’re trying to have a shot at a better life. I totally get what you’re saying but that doesn’t make her a bad person.
Sir however is a dumbass: he did the very thing the guy he voted for said he would crack down on and now he’s bitching and moaning… Well ya know, faces, leopards and all that.
She should have left him when he supported a rapist criminal for President of the country she wishes to join. Face-eating voter by proxy.
Unfortunately, there’s a high chance her immigration application depends on her being married to him. My husband and I have been at his process for going on 8 years, and it entirely rests on me sponsoring him. If we were to separate, his whole case would get shut down, and he starts over with an even more expensive and complicated process. We aren’t going to divorce because we love each other, but it’s still something that his lawyer had to advise us about.
Good point I guess, but it’s clearly a no win situation in this case. I hope you guys make it, but probably your husband shouldn’t
leave the countrygo anywhere near a border for a while.I suspect people like your husband might even be at risk after naturalization during this administration.
The stupidest thing she did was marry someone who would vote that way. She should have left his ass the second he cast that ballot, if not before.
She went to Puerto Rico. Which is a US territory.
That may be true, but they have been rounding up legal immigrants at the various ports of entry for weeks. I didn’t see that the trip was to PR, but either way, they’ve rounded up several legal immigrants just here in San Ysidro. She knew she was no longer legally here, fucked around and found out.
