- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
When called out on it, they then doubled down on this dogshit take: https://archive.ph/quYyb
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People forget that the current antitrust actions against Big Tech were started under the first Trump admin.
So shut the fuck up Andy, you’re out of your element.
Trump doesn’t go after big tech to help the little guy. Trump goes after big tech to bring them to heel.
The dumbass CEO has fallen for the MAGA lie that these billionaires are working for the the “little people”. They work for no one but themselves and their loyalists.
Is it true though? Not sure it’s the case: Lina Khan was nominated by Biden.
Is it true though?
Yes. AG William Barr sought to force backdoors in encryption in 2019. You can read all about it in the article I linked to.
I think they were asking about the actions against big tech starting under Trump. My memory ain’t what it used to be (& it was never very good), but even if something was started under Trump there have been various actions taken against big tech going at least as far back as the Internet Explorer near-monopoly days - so it’s not exactly like they did anything new, special, or unprecedented.
EDIT: Can some kind soul take pity on me and explain why I’m getting downvoted, instead of just a hit & run? What did I get wrong?
explain why I’m getting downvoted,
Oh, don’t bother! Sometimes it feels like even asking for people to explain their downvotes invites more downvotes for some inexplicable reason.
Oh, don’t bother! Sometimes it feels like even asking for people to explain their downvotes invites more downvotes for some inexplicable reason.
Without referring to the specific post in question, I have some comments about that.
Different people downvote for all sorts of different reasons. Some downvote if they disagree with a statement, some downvote because they don’t like the way the statement is presented (eg. I often downvote posts with huge embedded memes, even if I like what the meme says); some downvote because they don’t think the context is appropriate (even if they agree with the ideas said, they might be seen as the wrong time / place); some downvote due to a misunderstanding or perhaps an ambiguity in the post. etc. etc. And very often, posts with more than one idea in them are downvoted by people who agree with part of it but disagree with another part (even if the second part is minor and insignificant).
So then, if someone says something like “I’m being downvoted because xyz”, they’ll almost certainly be downvoted by a heap of people who had a different reason in mind. If a person says “show me where I’m wrong”, that apparently ignores the other possible reasons for downvotes - and can sometimes imply arrogance and stubbornness - which of course will invite downvotes. And if someone just asks “why am I being downvoted?” it might be interpreted to mean “I don’t deserve to be downvoted” - which of course will also invite more downvotes.
Thanks for laying it out. Yeah, I’ve thought about this and I do get it that we’re all different. I wrote that out of exasperation from the inconsistency and just plain old pettiness that seems to underline some of those motives that leave people confused.
My criteria is: does this contribute to the conversation in any meaningful way and is it grounded? So to me things like downvoting because of some arbitrary reason that only serves the voter feels selfish and shallow and pointless. It’s almost destructive, even, when previous voting scores hold some momentum and impact how the thread is perceived. For example, some folks have been downvoted to hell because someone misinterpreted their comment and replied with a popular opinion totally missing the point, framing the first person a moron but without critically looking into what they’re saying beyond first the impression. (Man, I wish I could find that one exemplary thread easily.)
I know, I know, the points are made up and don’t matter, but sometimes they mean something to those who receive them.
But anyway, thank you for your synthesis, you sound like a very smart cookie.
donvotes dont mean you’re wrong. they mean you made someone mad. sometimes this is because you said something they know is incorrect. but more often its because what you said may be true, and disagrees with their worldview or ideology.
Yes it’s true. The Trump administration initiated the first major antitrust lawsuit against Google in 2020.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/20/justice-department-antitrust-case-google-430281
But it doesn’t make up for the myriad of other shitty things he’s done. Keeping Lina Kahn on would have been the absolute easiest way to assuage public concern, if he actually gave a fuck.
Or like, telling Musk and Zuck to get fucked.
Mostly I remember him getting angry at all the fact checking bots (election, Russia, etc) that Twitter, Facebook, and Google introduced and that was one of the ways to go after them.
I don’t really care what the reason is, personally.
Well sure, but if he’s going after then because they are big corporations, fine. But it’s another thing if he’s going after certain big corporations because they are an inconvenience/opposed to him. He’s going to stop going after the big tech companies once in they are in line with him… Like stopping fact checking and what not.
What does ths forced backdoor have to do with the text you quoted?
Because Andy was saying something that people forget and OP is pointing out something Andy is forgetting? It is pointing out Andy’s bias or ignorance to make Trump look good
Getting real fuckin tired of having to always find ‘alternatives’. Can’t yall rich bastards just stop being weird and be content with making good products. Just cause you have money, doesn’t mean you need to have a public opinion on anything, ever
This is what I feel is the core problem of out-of-bounds capitalism today. 50-80 years ago there were fabulously wealthy people as well, but they were taxed out the wazoo and were still fabulously wealthy. And even though every corporation’s goal is, and always has been, to make profit, it feels as if it’s gone from “profit” to “maximum possible profit at ALL costs, including the damnation of life on the planet”.
We have plenty of examples of hypercapitalism destroying us in fiction (cyberpunk etc.) but our current reality is really really close to that hellscape. In some ways it’s actually worse because of the insidiousness and banality of the evil that lords over us daily.
Sorry im not from the US… what is a “wazoo”?
It’s written as “up the wazoo” or “out the wazoo.” “Wazoo” in this context means “ass” and the meaning as a whole is “in large amounts.”
wazoo = anus
Anyone who becomes rich will work to protect that wealth.
Gotta support FOSS alternatives.
Buy your own domain and use a service like mailbox.org which is in Germany.
Also super easy to move to a new email host later when you have your own domain.
Sounds like you might enjoy Apple products.
Welllll Tim Cook did personally donate $1M to Trump’s inauguration fund…
Mentioning that Democrats are trash on dealing with corporations is just fine. Good, even.
Lying through your god damn teeth that Republicans are going to do anything other than lie to gain more leverage for their jihad to fuck over their fellow man is delusional at best.
I dunno what’s worse. Lying about Republicans being “for the little guy”, or actually believing it. Both point to significant logic, reasoning, and judgmental flaws in Proton’s leadership.
I’ve been calling America a corporate dictatorship for well over a decade, so Yen/Proton realizing the Dem’s are captured is welcomed, but the belief that R’s are better in 2025 is completely insane.
I’ve got 18 months left on my current plan, so that’ll give me time to see how deep this clusterfuck goes and transition away if need be.
Oh Andy, the Republicans won’t think of you as “one of the good ones” and protect you from their white America policies.
Thank you for being one of the saner takes in this thread.
Call out the bad and insane parts of Andy Yen’s comment. Also call out the good. Don’t fall for the same trap that Yen himself got caught in by painting the entire thing as “full MAGA”. The characterization from this post’s title feels similar to me as Yen himself saying “all Democrats bad and care only for the big guy”.
I can deal with Andy Yen being a dumbass in his own time, but the official Proton reddit account doubling down on this shit is over the line for me.
I literally just renewed for 2 years a couple days ago. I will be looking for alternatives and hopefully I can get a partial refund or something.
Was about to pay for proton. Not now
I’m glad I never did. I looked into proton a few months back and was highly suspicious of their non-profit status. I could never put my finger on why but felt off.
Glad I never fully committed to it.
Non-profit is a tax status not a business plan.
There’s Mullvad.
Unfortunately I made the mistake of really digging myself into the Proton ecosystem.
My current plan is:
VPN -> Mullvad
Mail -> Tuta
Pass -> Bitwarden (not sure if I want to host yet)
Drive -> Nextcloud (Self-Hosted)
Calendar -> Nextcloud (Self-Hosted)
Standard Notes -> Memos (Self-Hosted) (already done)
Simple Login -> no fucking clue, I am dreading migrating these.
I just migrated all of my aliases to addy.io, but I was also fortunate in that all of my aliases were based on a domain that I own. It was a simple as exporting the alias list to a CSV, formatting it a little for addy.io, then importing it!
If all of your aliases are based off of simple login domains, then that’s gonna be a lot harder. You’ll have to change your email on all of your. If that’s the case, in the future, I would definitely recommend getting a second domain for generating these aliases so that migrating is the problem in the future!
As for addy.io, I honestly love the service. The Lite plan is plenty for my needs and only costs $12 a year. That and Bitwarden are a steal imo.
I was also fortunate in that all of my aliases were based on a domain that I own.
I’m in the same boat luckily, so maybe this won’t be as bad as I’m expecting. I’ll take a look at Addy.io as well, thanks for the recommendation!
Is there a reason you’re not planning on migrating both mail and calendar to Tuta?
Mostly because if I’m going to go through the trouble of maintaining a Nextcloud instance, I might as well use its calendar to maintain more control of my data. If Nextcloud gives me trouble down the line (as it tends to do in my experience) then I’ll give Tuta’s calendar a try.
I’m optimistic for Nextcloud though, the latest AIO docker versions seem solid.
I have a Nextcloud Instance that’s been pretty solid for me for a couple years, but I don’t use their all-in-one image so I can’t comment on that. I do use Radicale instead of Nextcloud’s calendar/contacts though and I removed basically all of the Nextcloud apps except the file sharing. Idk why. I just don’t like when everything is in one thing lol
Do you happen to know any alternatives for their email? Some security guy on YouTube was talking about how their email aliasing is better because if you lose a single email/password combo, you’re not subject to any other breaches.
I mean I already use a password manager since I adopted KeePass like 15 years ago and use Bitwarden now, but I still like that concept.
https://cyberinsider.com/email/alternatives-to-gmail/ “10 Best Alternatives to Gmail in 2025 (Private & Secure)”
The list is useful because there is comparison information to help you to decide. Proton Mail is on the list, which means some of the comparisons are relative to Proton Mail.
This is one of the reasons I will never fork over so much cash for a yearly subscription to anything. I pay monthly on everything I subscribe to, because you never know when that service decides, “Yeah. Fuck it. Let’s go downhill, full sprint!”
CEOs having a “who can suck off Trump best” contest?
You are missing class analysis. Fascism is good for business and wealth accumulation.
This is how it’s feeling like, last few weeks. I’ll somehow need to justify keeping my proton plan
Yeah I’m in the same boat, I mostly use the VPN I wonder what security it actualy gives now.
It never gave you any, that claim that every VPN provider makes about security and privacy is mostly false. It saves you from like two types of attacks that are so specific I can almost guarantee you you never encountered them in the wild. They also make it 10% harder for your local provider to keep tabs on you at the expense of introducing another very specific ledger of everything you do, that belongs to a trump loving company apparently, and unlike your ISP they are legallly allowed to do whatever they want with it.
It’s not what VPN is for.Mine do protect me very well for what I’m using it for. They have to break Swiss law to not to.
What do you mean?
You said VPNs are not useful, right? Or so I understood it. It’s just so that my VPN is definitely useful for me in a couple of usecases.
No, that’s not what I said, I said that commercial companies make a lot of misleading claims about their products and about what naked VPN does.
And I’m curious about your application and how does it provide security to you
Gonna need to expand this
Here is our official response […] the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.
lol
how? explain how you even come to that conclusion. big tech is running the republicans!
I’m thinking that they must mean tackling the abuse of big tech. Like taxes, and regulations, and pesky things like the justice system. Accountability is woke.
To be fair, they are also running the democrats, the independents, etc, etc.
Yeah but we’re talking a different between being on a leash vs a full on, hand-up-the-ass sock puppet.
I mean Elon Musk is the president now, and he wasn’t before. I don’t think it’s exactly the same.
I could handle it if it was the CEO’s personal position - still gross, but whatever. To have this be the company’s official political position, though, I think I’m out.
Recommendations for alternative email and cloud storage providers? Mullvad seems the way to go for VPN
Tuta seems to be the closest competitor for email.
Check out Posteo. They are awesome.
The only big tech firms Trump is going to crack down on are the ones that didn’t “donate” $1m to his inauguration fund. Apple, Amazon, Meta, and others… They’re all going to be just fine.
I wonder if Andy paid his tribute yet or if he’s hoping some virtue signaling might save him from the incoming shit storm. Let’s see how this plays out. 🍿
I’d like to know what maga is going to do for the little guy besides more grifting.
Transfer wealth upwards.
i.e. Take all our worries away by leaving us with nothing to worry about.
Point at different things and try to blame what they’re doing to them on it.
Comments like his seriously confuse me. You see the incompetent cabinet picks. You see the richest man in the world buying himself the presidency. You see the talk about annexations and war.
This is gonna be great for the little man, yes sure.
I’ll be leaving Proton fucking immediately.
just cancelled my auto renew, now I gotta find a way to manage all my custom emails again rip
I’m in the same boat. SimpleLogin is a nice feature, but if this is Proton’s position, they don’t get more of my money.
Firefox Relay seems like a good, free choice?
Another option is anonaddy
Well I no longer will be recommending proton to people. Can’t trust anyone this stupid with privacy.
I wouldn’t say he’s being “Maga”, but this is some “Libertarian” dumb fuck that has no clue what’s happeneing in politics.
If you scroll through his twitter, he did praise some things that Biden did, so it seems like he might just be bootlicking whoever is in power as appeasement
Edit: He also seems to be pro-Ukraine and supports the activists in Hong Kong, so basically a Libertarian that leans to the political right. (And also being a huge dumbass)
I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.
“Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”
“What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”
“Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”
The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”
“Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”
“Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”
He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”
“Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”
I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.
“Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.
“Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.
“Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”
It didn’t seem like they did.
“Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”
Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.
I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.
“Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.
Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.
“Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.
I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”
He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.
“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
“Because I was afraid.”
“Afraid?”
“Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”
I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.
“Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”
He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
Every time I read this my absolute favorite part is how in all the monetary transactions described, nobody ever pays for anything with bitcoin.
By Tom O’Donnell https://archive.ph/UTYYE
Official statement from Proton, after I filed a complaint:
Hello, Thank you for contacting us. We appreciate you reaching out, please be informed that we have shared a response to the community feedback which can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i2nz9v/on_politics_and_proton_a_message_from_andy/ We hope you find this information helpful. Should you have any further issues, questions or perhaps a concern that you’d like us to address, please do not hesitate to let us know.
Kind regards,
Ethan Customer Support Proton Mail
My response:
Hi,
Thank you for your response. I wish this would clarify everything, however, the comments he made on Reddit were done with the official Proton admin account, therefore making his personal comments an official Proton statement. https://snoo.habedieeh.re/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i1zjgn/comment/m7ahrlm/ Next to the fact that he posted his personal believes as an official Proton statement, the claims he made are factual untrue, making Proton spread fake news (as noted in the comments under Yen his statement). If it indeed it is just his personal opinion, he should have posted everything from his personal account only.
I have my personal opinion which I don’t mind sharing with others, but I won’t use a company account to make these claims as that could get me fired.
Andy Yen didn’t make Proton a part of his opinion by just sharing it, but by sharing it as Proton. I believe Proton should take action if Proton doesn’t want to be affiliated with Yen his personal opinions and with the fake news he spreads.
I would like to know what Proton will do about this incident and how Proton will ensure this doesn’t happen again in the future as incidents like these make Proton look unprofessional and breaks trust with its customer base, one which holds privacy and security high. When the CEO is so easy to manipulate by populists and fake news from another country and makes this official Proton statements, how can the company ensure what it stands for.
Kind regards,
W
Nicely done, and it will be interesting to see if you get another reply.
Their response:
Hello, Thank you for reaching back. We appreciate your concern regarding our mission and its possible affiliations. As mentioned in the link provided, the opinions of Andy Yen were his own, which is why these comments were either removed, or clarified to be his own views. It’s important to us that we clarify our position and reinforce our unwavering mission: empowering individuals with tools to protect their privacy, secure their communications, and promote digital freedom. We genuinely appreciate hearing from our community and value the dialogue that allows us to grow and strengthen our commitment to serving you. We understand that public discussions involving political figures or nominations can evoke strong reactions. We hope you find this information helpful. Should you have any further issues, questions or perhaps a concern that you’d like us to address, please do not hesitate to let us know.
Kind regards,
Ethan Customer Support Proton Mail
Kind of disappointing imo. Why are his comments still online, posted with an official Proton account.
My reply (including 2 screenshots of posts on Lemmy with the amount of upvotes and replies)
Hi,
Thank you for you for your reply. Sorry for being so bold, but he posted his personal opinions from an official Proton account on reddit and these comments are still online. He later claimed these opinions are personal, however, left them under a Proton account online.
As you can see in the screenshots I added as attachment, people are outraged and lost trust in Proton, including me. Please note the user base of Lemmy is rather small. The Proton sub contain 5.5k users and a total of 417 posts, making the percentage of people outraged rather significant.
So far we haven’t seen any action from Proton to fix this, only a comment from Yen it was just his personal opinion.
When Proton it’s stance stays passive and these trust issues aren’t fixed, people will leave for a more trustworthy alternative.
I’m a paying customer since 2019 and am highly disappointed in how this is handled. I expected better from Proton, especially after their claim to strive to be better and maintain it’s goal by becoming a foundation. For a company who wants to ensure it’s goal for the future, you’re doing a lousy job and you’re having the wrong CEO.
Kind regards,
W
Their response:
Hello,
Thank you for following-up.
We understand you are concerned about the fact that he posted his personal opinions from an official Proton account. However, the statement in question was put out by mistake due to an internal miscommunication, and has since been retracted.
The concentration of power and influence among a small group of technology industry leaders is a significant concern. This is the reason why Proton is not controlled by any individual, including Andy Yen, but by the non-profit Proton Foundation, which has neutrality in its governing principles. As a result, the statement was retracted as soon as leadership got information of it.
We sincerely apologize once again for any concern this situation may have caused and thank you for bringing it to our attention.
Please feel free to contact us at any time if you need any assistance or if you have any questions. Kind regards,
Ethan Customer Support Proton Mail
Nicely written, please keep us posted!
If there’s a way for the rest of Proton to force him out, now would be a good time to save face.
If there’s a big enough community outrage and if enough people cancel their plans because of this, he will be forced to step down, in order to save the face of the company.
Maybe. Can board members of a non-profit “impeach” another board member?
Not sure if they have the guts to oust its founder.
Probably not and he doesn’t have the self-awareness to resign, so it’s a real shame. I doubt their “mission” will change from these comments, but it leaves a sour enough taste to force people to look elsewhere, me included.
okay cool beans, time to cancel my protonvpn subscription 💀
How did both him and and the rest of the board think this was a smart thing to stand by? Does he really think people interested in privacy also support Trump?
What a way to alienate your entire customer base
It seems the guy keeps digging a bigger and bigger hole for himself. Sigh…
